gain space, reholster or find obsticles to put between the 2 of you. if unarmed you cannot use deadly force(atleast in my state) . Ir will take em longer to pick up a weapon than it will for me to draw. Also , if your gun has it, be sure to put the safety back on. I have L.E. training , so hand to hand is an option if need be, abeit a last resort if possible.
Opinions pls.
Guys/Gals
Situation: An aggressor (could be male/female) is attacking someone with the intention of great bodily harm or even death with a deadly weapon in hand, you are a ccw holder(PTC), you draw your pistol at low ready and shout command to the attacker to drop the weapon which he/she does but, after dropping said weapon the attacker begin to advance to your position showing signs of aggressive behavior towards you but is unarmed.
Question: What would you do?
Thanks!
Situation: An aggressor (could be male/female) is attacking someone with the intention of great bodily harm or even death with a deadly weapon in hand, you are a ccw holder(PTC), you draw your pistol at low ready and shout command to the attacker to drop the weapon which he/she does but, after dropping said weapon the attacker begin to advance to your position showing signs of aggressive behavior towards you but is unarmed.
Question: What would you do?
Thanks!
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Generally, deadly force can be used anytime you feel that you are in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death. The problem comes in convincing LEO, judge, jury, etc. that the situation truly was the threat you thought it was.
It was determined in a court right here in Tennessee that in order for deadly force to be used, three things must be in place - intent, opportunity, and ability. In the case you gave the attacker has demonstrated intent and ability. When he starts advancing toward you he is trying to establish opportuninty.
The situation is complicated by the fact that he has dropped his weapon, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have another weapon and you don't have anyway to know. I guess the real question is can you shoot this apparently unarmed guy if you feel your life is threatened. I believe I would respond like rocky suggested - try to make some distance. This helps to show on-lookers who the aggressor is. Yell commands, like "Stay away from me.", "Get away from me.", and anything else that will help to illustrate his aggression.
Again it is a really tough call to shoot an unarmed attacker. It's not so tough if there is a clear discrepency or advantage in size, etc. But assuming this guy was your size, hopefully he would be doing more than just approaching you. Hopefully he be swearing about what he's going to do to you. But it'd still a tough call.
It was determined in a court right here in Tennessee that in order for deadly force to be used, three things must be in place - intent, opportunity, and ability. In the case you gave the attacker has demonstrated intent and ability. When he starts advancing toward you he is trying to establish opportuninty.
The situation is complicated by the fact that he has dropped his weapon, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have another weapon and you don't have anyway to know. I guess the real question is can you shoot this apparently unarmed guy if you feel your life is threatened. I believe I would respond like rocky suggested - try to make some distance. This helps to show on-lookers who the aggressor is. Yell commands, like "Stay away from me.", "Get away from me.", and anything else that will help to illustrate his aggression.
Again it is a really tough call to shoot an unarmed attacker. It's not so tough if there is a clear discrepency or advantage in size, etc. But assuming this guy was your size, hopefully he would be doing more than just approaching you. Hopefully he be swearing about what he's going to do to you. But it'd still a tough call.
rocky I like your answer but I'm gonna pick on you...
Honestly is there a good reason they should keep advancing on you if they're honestly giving up?
And then once you have reholstered, the .25 ACP holdout pistol they had palmed is suddenly visible... Personally I'd be yelling at them one more time get down on their stomach, and if they didn't, well you know.rocky said:gain space, reholster or find obsticles to put between the 2 of you. if unarmed you cannot use deadly force(atleast in my state) . Ir will take em longer to pick up a weapon than it will for me to draw. Also , if your gun has it, be sure to put the safety back on. I have L.E. training , so hand to hand is an option if need be, abeit a last resort if possible.
Honestly is there a good reason they should keep advancing on you if they're honestly giving up?
I agree 100% Best to go to a nonlethal weapon like Pepper Spray or possibly a stun device. Maybe an impact weapon like one of those collapsible batons, as long as you strike extremeties like elbow or knee, you'll be okay. This is the primary reason for a "layered" defense array. I try and keep up with my study of Aikido. I teach in an inner city high school. Can't carry my gun, even if I wanted to, so I have alternate means available. For me, a rolled up newspaper works fine.rocky said:gain space, reholster or find obsticles to put between the 2 of you. if unarmed you cannot use deadly force(atleast in my state) . Ir will take em longer to pick up a weapon than it will for me to draw. Also , if your gun has it, be sure to put the safety back on. I have L.E. training , so hand to hand is an option if need be, abeit a last resort if possible.
Euc,
I read right over that; I agree, don't holster, stay at low ready or even pointed at the guy - he's the agressor. If your gun is holstered, and he draws, you'll be too far behind to catch up. And, keep watching his hands, if they do something "furtive" you can shoot him.
I read right over that; I agree, don't holster, stay at low ready or even pointed at the guy - he's the agressor. If your gun is holstered, and he draws, you'll be too far behind to catch up. And, keep watching his hands, if they do something "furtive" you can shoot him.
A very possible scenario indeed.
Space - yeah - make space.
Verbalize - YES - shout a lot issuing commands to STOP!!
If then the attack and threat is still evident, even while you're still retreating (and that assumes you have space available!) - you may have to consider the ultimate sanction. Oh and appros pos Tangle's mention - yes - gun at low ready.
The biggest unknown could be - does he have a BUG?! A brief assessment of the type of individual could perhaps give some clue as to what to expect - but that said - expect the UNexpected!
Space - yeah - make space.
Verbalize - YES - shout a lot issuing commands to STOP!!
If then the attack and threat is still evident, even while you're still retreating (and that assumes you have space available!) - you may have to consider the ultimate sanction. Oh and appros pos Tangle's mention - yes - gun at low ready.
The biggest unknown could be - does he have a BUG?! A brief assessment of the type of individual could perhaps give some clue as to what to expect - but that said - expect the UNexpected!
Know the future????
Cell phone and be a witness....unless a small child is involved.
How do you know what is going to happen?? You cannot even tell the players without a scorcard. You do not know what went on before your arrival on the scene.nrmcolt said:Guys/Gals
Situation: An aggressor (could be male/female) is attacking someone with the intention of great bodily harm or even death with a deadly weapon in hand, you are a ccw holder(PTC), you draw your pistol at low ready and shout command to the attacker to drop the weapon which he/she does but, after dropping said weapon the attacker begin to advance to your position showing signs of aggressive behavior towards you but is unarmed.
Question: What would you do?
Thanks!
Cell phone and be a witness....unless a small child is involved.
True KC but bottom line surely is - one person unarmed (as best judged) being threatened by another person who IS armed.
Regardless of the what went on before and even not knowing the player's previous situation - this could be a case to consider for intervention ...... tho as ever, we are looking at a broad pallette here - and circumstances alter events. We cannot really judge this one other than by very sweeping generalizations.
I have a sorta ''mental pic'' and so plan by that - but we probably all ''see'' different scenes. Cell is well worth consideration but - we don't know the time constraints - if things happen fast - no time to use phone etc.
Biggest possible error we could make would be not realizing it was a plain-clothes, under-cover cop - but then I guess if we screwed up there we would soon see a shield :biggrin:
Regardless of the what went on before and even not knowing the player's previous situation - this could be a case to consider for intervention ...... tho as ever, we are looking at a broad pallette here - and circumstances alter events. We cannot really judge this one other than by very sweeping generalizations.
I have a sorta ''mental pic'' and so plan by that - but we probably all ''see'' different scenes. Cell is well worth consideration but - we don't know the time constraints - if things happen fast - no time to use phone etc.
Biggest possible error we could make would be not realizing it was a plain-clothes, under-cover cop - but then I guess if we screwed up there we would soon see a shield :biggrin:
And possibly get dead?? When the cop, or citizen who is trying to get his child/property/etc, back shoots me??
I am not a cop, and need not act like one. My obligation is to go home to my family.
IF...I have good information and IF I can do so safely, it is possible I might take action.
I know this sounds cruel or crass, but it is my right to refuse to be responsible for other than my family.....others should take care of themselves.
I am not a cop, and need not act like one. My obligation is to go home to my family.
IF...I have good information and IF I can do so safely, it is possible I might take action.
I know this sounds cruel or crass, but it is my right to refuse to be responsible for other than my family.....others should take care of themselves.
Personally, if someone doing wrong advances unarmed on someone armed, they still have bad intent in mind. I'd try to de-escalate the situation, gain space in a reasonable fashion but not fully retreat. If he still advances, I'd feel threatened to the point of my life is in danger, because no sound minded person would advance on an armed individual. And to be honest, dead BG's can't tell their side of the story either.
So much of this depends on your role in the situation. Are you enforcing the law in any sort of official or quasi-official capacity, or are you just trying to save your own bacon? Your knowledge of the law where you are at might have a lot to do with it too.
Euclidean said:rocky I like your answer but I'm gonna pick on you...
And then once you have reholstered, the .25 ACP holdout pistol they had palmed is suddenly visible... Personally I'd be yelling at them one more time get down on their stomach, and if they didn't, well you know.
Honestly is there a good reason they should keep advancing on you if they're honestly giving up?
I would rather reholster in case hand to hand is initiated. wrestling for control of your own gun isn't good. Usually if someone drops a weapon , they intent to go hand to hand or try to get your gun. Just my opinion , but alot would depend on the attackers attitude as they head for me.
Even then man, just transition to a port arm style grip and have a hand free for whatever you need to do. I know Tueller drill and all that jazz, but if I have them covered with a muzzle why should I give that up?
a lot may depend on each persons personal level of training. With both hands free I can usually have someone on the ground face down in short order with a arm locking em down. Bottom line is ya gotta make the decision on the fly at the time. No 2 senarios will be exactly the same.
I think drawing your weapon was the first mistake you just mad a bad situation worse. I would first try to get the attention of this person to inform him or her that i just called the le and the are comming if this does not bring the situation down a level then alternate measures should be taken.We are not police the normal person is not trained to handel this ,things could go very bad for all partys
Things could go bad yes indeed - but the time factor is crucial - that's why I reckoned a phone call just might not be viable.
We could bat this around in many, many ways and all come up with different but still all ''sensible'' measures. Remember tho - at least way I am looking at it - we interpret the threat to another by gun as SERIOUS - like, someone is about to get shot!
The interpretation of that threat makes all the difference to how we react - and I too have family to return to and am not in any way a cop! :smile:
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BTW - welcome Mark :smile:
We could bat this around in many, many ways and all come up with different but still all ''sensible'' measures. Remember tho - at least way I am looking at it - we interpret the threat to another by gun as SERIOUS - like, someone is about to get shot!
The interpretation of that threat makes all the difference to how we react - and I too have family to return to and am not in any way a cop! :smile:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW - welcome Mark :smile:
Thank you for the wellcome p95 yes u make a very good point once again if we were to belive there was no time for any other allternative but stopping this threat at gun point then thats what has to be done, but god willing we will never be put to this test!
My oh my - we do have fun with our scenarios.
May not be quite always ''real world'' but hey - it sure provokes some deeper thinkin" :smile:
May not be quite always ''real world'' but hey - it sure provokes some deeper thinkin" :smile:
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
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