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Orlando nightclub shooting: Timeline of events inside Pulse - Orlando Sentinel

If correct, victims were shot between 0202 and 0208, a six minute span. Some may have been killed in the bathroom where the shooter barricaded himself, but other reports said there was no more gunfire after police entered the club.

Shooter was engaged almost immediately by officer in parking lot, but officer felt "outgunned" and waited for backup before entering the club. This was the critical six minute gap.

I wasn't there. But there are surely going to be some lessons learned (or re-learned) from this.

Once initial backup arrived, and officers made entry and exchanged fire with the shooter, it seems the carnage ended.

I'm gonna stop now, as my blood pressure is rising again. So tired of laws that force us to be disarmed victims. :mad:
 

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(or re-learned)
Yes. The lesson first learned at Columbine is to seek out and engage the perp(s) IMMEDIATELY, and to continue engaging until the threat is eliminated. It does not matter if your are a patrolman with a sidearm and longun in the trunk, or an off-duty detective with a .38 snub on your ankle- you press the attack, and hopefully stop or distract the perp from his primary mission. Any delay or "waiting for back-up" automatically results in more dead victims, especially if the target is a densely packed "gun free" zone.
 

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I saw a little more of this on the morning news. He told cops that he had a car bomb in the parking lot and would detonate it if they tried to enter. He also told them he had several hostages that would be executed if they attempted an entry. They treated it like a hostage situation at that point and not an active shooter.

It's easy to second guess their actions after all the facts come out, but they're reacting to bits and pieces of information as it becomes available and half of it will turn out to be inaccurate.

Since Florida doesn't allow you to carry in a place that makes more than half its revenue from the sale of alcohol, the only people that would have been armed were criminals. I wish they would treat us like adults. If you aren't drinking, you shouldn't have your rights restricted.
 

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Yes. The lesson first learned at Columbine is to seek out and engage the perp(s) IMMEDIATELY, and to continue engaging until the threat is eliminated. It does not matter if your are a patrolman with a sidearm and longun in the trunk, or an off-duty detective with a .38 snub on your ankle- you press the attack, and hopefully stop or distract the perp from his primary mission. Any delay or "waiting for back-up" automatically results in more dead victims, especially if the target is a densely packed "gun free" zone.
Indeed. I don't want to "bash" the officer on scene initially, but... I've read several former officers on this very forum state that an officer's primary concern is to go home at the end of their shift. We are at war, and the enemy is here. If you aren't willing to go toward the sound of the guns, then law enforcement is not the career for you.

I'm sure more will come out as the after action review is completed. Will keep an open mind until then.

By the way, the "militarization of police" crowd have been strangely silent. Armored vehicles...breaching explosives...body armor. Yeah, police need it.
 

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He told cops that he had a car bomb in the parking lot and would detonate it if they tried to enter. He also told them he had several hostages that would be executed if they attempted an entry. They treated it like a hostage situation at that point and not an active shooter.
All of the above occurred after the initial "shooting fish in a barrel" phase. My area of concern is what happened inside the club after the officer broke off the initial engagement and before additional officers made entry and the shooting generally stopped, approximately 2:02 to 2:08 am.

I am not quite sure how "waiting for back-up" for six minutes is beneficial when you are supposedly the only "good guy with a gun" in the immediate area and you can hear the carnage that is going on inside the club.
 

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Some of the best armchair quarterbacks you'll ever find on the Internet can be found on gun forums. And, as is usually the case with such experts, they don't really have a clue.
Some events, especially ones like this, deserve plenty of armchair quarterbacking. :rolleyes:

The problem is that this lesson had already been learned the hard way- waiting for back-up is the WRONG ANSWER for stopping an active shooter.
 

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What WebleyHunter said. If the police began brining out people at 2:15 why were 49 people left there until after 5 o'clock? It would be reasonable to think some of the wounded might have survived if they had received medical attention much sooner. This was not handled well despite any spin the Orlando media and police try to put on it. I hope nothing similar to this ever happens again. If it does the response should be much sooner and much more determined. Just sayin'.
 
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Maybe the officer could have done better. Maybe he would have died trying. It's a burden he's gotta carry for the rest of his life.
That is a very true statement.
 
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I'm not going to second guess anything the first officer did nor the ones that showed up later. That'll all come out in the wash. But I will say that if the laws where changed so someone could carry concealed in these places it could have made a difference. I'm not advocating drinking with a firearm but I know plenty of people that don't drink but still enjoy going out with their friends.
 

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Fail on the part of the armed guard who first encountered the shooter.

If you sign up and are getting paid to protect the patrons then that is what you should try to do.

Would he have been successful? Nobody knows, but he should have given it a try.

My predication: This guy (the guard) is not going to last very long. Either by his own hand or someone else's he will be offed.
 

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Some events, especially ones like this, deserve plenty of armchair quarterbacking. :rolleyes:

The problem is that this lesson had already been learned the hard way- waiting for back-up is the WRONG ANSWER for stopping an active shooter.
So the right answer is taking a handgun and chasing a guy with a rifle into an unknown environment with many people inside against an unknown number of attackers, armed with unknown small arms and unknown explosives?

Let's not forget that, even at the end, he managed to nail one of the ten-or-so SWAT guys in the forehead before they gunned him down. Sorry, but I'm not going to blame the cops for not being suicidal enough.
 

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From the article:
They exchange fire, but the officer realizes he is "outgunned" and retreats to call for backup. Mateen goes inside.
This is what troubles me. His tactics should of dictated this fight. IMO
 

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It seems to me that the club operator didn't envision an active shooter. That would explain having only one guard. it would seem he was there only to deal with rowdy patrons. Otherwise there would have been two guards and they would have been at a choke point (to deny entry) as well as having one roving. This is somewhat of a rhetorical point as I understand it's all about the cost/benefit. Still, it seems we are living in interesting times.

As far as lessons go, the immediate action for an ambush situation (which this was) has been known for a long time. It's shameful that our general population haven't educated themselves.
 

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I worked in Command and Control for awhile in the AF. It's similar to a 911 call center. One night I got a call from a night guard at one of our remote sites. He said that there was a massive fuel leak. A tanker truck had overturned in a ditch and it was carrying 5000 gallons of fuel. I went through my response checklists, which included sending an immediate message to the Joint Chiefs. We were in Germany, so this constituted an international incident. I dispatched a full HAZMAT cleanup team, contacted the appropriate officers, and contacted a security team to secure the area.

The teams took about two hours to get to the site. At that time I got a call from a very angry Lt Col who was the on scene commander. The "massive oil spill" was a leaking valve on a tanker truck that had an intermittent drip. It was not overturned. It was parked on the side of the road. They put a small bucket under it to catch the drips until the next morning.

The next morning (after my 12 hour shift had ended) I got called into the morning staff meeting and grilled by every ranking officer on the base. The lesson was that you can only react based on the information available at the time. I followed my checklists to the letter. It was a clear case of GIGO.

Every major incident that came through us had some degree of faulty information in the initial reports. You can't delay an emergency response hoping that the initial report is wrong. You have to react based on the information available at the time. If the people on scene had realized that there was one shooter and he didn't have any bombs, I'm sure they would have reacted differently.
 

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Survivor Selvin Dubon, 30, sees Mateen moving across the dance floor toward the VIP seating area near the patio, firing both his rifle and a handgun.
So shooting both at same time? if so then could not have been been any more effective than 2 handguns would have been (unless over penetration caused many of the casualties.)


Also I don't care what anyone says this guy was no Islamic Terrorist he was just same home grown wussy kind that all the others are. He just wanted to see himself in the news with the highest death toll. Otherwise all he had to do was walk in a detonate a real vest in the middle the dance floor.
 

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So the right answer is taking a handgun and chasing a guy with a rifle into an unknown environment with many people inside against an unknown number of attackers, armed with unknown small arms and unknown explosives?
YES!

How can the answer be any other when the perp is ACTIVELY SHOOTING people by the dozens as you wait for reinforcements?

This "we must have 100% situational knowledge and control before acting" is what led to additional deaths at Columbine. Klebold and Harris were engaged by gunfire from two different LEO's before reentering the school. At this point, the tally was just two dead and ten wounded. The lack of continued and closing entanglement by LE allowed the perps to complete their library massacre unimpeded. This is the simple lesson of Columbine.
 
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