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Stopped for gas on way to the shoot today - small gas station, only two pumps and somewhat out of the way. A car (real beater) was there already, being filled by a less than pleasant looking punk, and inside car were two others.

I got to filling truck, keeping a subtle eye on this crew nearby - and not feeling over comfortable actually. I knew I was being watched by all three in some way, rather obviously.

So - it occurred to me yet again (OK this is old hat to ''the choir''!) - that no way on this small planet, can cops be out to protect our butts, it is numerically impossible and IMO something we should not (anyone) even expect. If it turned out these guys had bad intentions, like try it on with me and/or scam the office to rob - what would be the outcome?

Had anything gone down before I could have left, well, at least I would have had a good chance - but unarmed, probably hell no! I was not exactly ''secure'' in my armed status but at same time I did at least have some form of solution were it needed.

They pumped less than me and finished - the guy went and paid and was quickly back - and off they went, still looking. My spidey sense may have been excessive but - even the clerk when I went in to pay expressed discomfort at dealing with the one guy - call it ''vibes'', so it was not just me.

So as ever - who knows - things can occur anywhere and it is WE, who bear the responsibility for our own protection. Tell that to the poor folks in Uk or Aus' - they have little to fall back on at all.
 

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Usually when you find yourself being stared at by multiple "up to no goods" then it's likely that you were being "street thug evaluated" ~ It's good that you (Chris) do not come across as being an easy mark. or a marshmallow target.
 

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evidently something about your look/demeanor told them this guy might fight back. who knows? you might've prevented a holdup or worse just by being there. good job without even trying,lol.
 

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I'll take it a step farther. I believe that citizens have the duty to stop or prevent crime to the best of their ability. I don't think that a good citizen can hide under a rock ith their gun and be satisfied that they and theirs are safe.

Now, I realize that this has to depend on the specific situation. Sometimes the best you can do is be a good witness, call 911, get licence plate, etc... but I don't think you should have the mindset of automatically NOT getting directly involved.
 

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Chris you took the words out of my head. I really feel its our responcibility to protect ourselfs and our fellow citizens.
 

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You are so right about the police not being every where. When I was a young man I moved to Missouri with my parents. We left Southern California because Dad wanted to live some place quieter and safer. We landed in a small town with a population of 608, my high school class in Calif had that many people in it. So the first Saturday night after getting settled in I head for the nearest big town to see what is going on. The car is a little low on gas so I pull into the first gas station I come too and as my head lights hit the front office I see a masked man holding a gun the the cashier. He sees the headlights and bolts out of the office and down an alley. So Chris you are right no matter where or when we must be ready, because there is no place without threat.
Mike
 

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Nice job. Sometimes all it takes is the look of someone who is "on his game" to turn the advantage. BGs DO NOT want a fair fight. If you have the presence(sp?) of someone who will not lay down and cower behind a threat of violence then you are someone who gives the BG a second thought as to what his plan of action is going to be. Seeing a citizen in the area who is ready to combat violence with everything he has is easy to spot from the BG point of view. A fair fight is NOT what he is after.


Kudos to you for being vigilent and ready to defend yourself and those around you. If you don't want to be a victim then don't look like a victim. Make yourself look as though you are ready to eat nails and **** bullets!!!
 

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It happens day and night here

Around my crime infested cowtown they rob people at convenience stores day and night.

There is no way that our local police can do very much to protect us. It's be ready for anything or become the next victim on the news.

One night last week there were nine holdups and most were people getting gas at convenience stores or the clerk inside.

Yesterday three young dudes tried robbing this small northside secondhand store run by and older man and his wife.

They Implied they had guns and demanded money when the owner was slow to respond they knocked him down.

Well he pulled out this 38spl revolver "he had a CCW permit" and blasted away hitting one of the robbers in the back as he ran.

They jumped in a waiting auto and made it to a near by apartment complex. Where the mother of the young dude called EMSA for help.

This young kid died on the way to the hospital.

This is really nothing new around here last year 2005 we had 65 homicides. I am going to try real hard not to one of them homicide victims in 2006.
 

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Good eye spotting trouble. Perhaps you should consider waiting to fill up till after the suspects drove off. Better to wait and have more options(drive away, seek better cover ) than be occupied with something other than a percieved threat. I might even have gone as far as fixing my cargo(getting my hands on a long gun).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Rocky, I did consider putting off my fill-up but in most situations I tend to prefer to act natural and the amount they were looking only really got going once I was filling - I was in a sense committed by then. I achieved most observation of their moves by monitoring reflection in my cap side window, and was holding nozzle left handed too! Maybe this said something :smile:

Rifle? Haha - on back seat was L1A1, with a full mag within reach - my, that could have been handy!! :wink:
 

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Interesting scenario! What can be done is very different from state to state. Some state laws indicate that the only thing you can do is to protect yourself and perhaps your family. But, you can't do anything to protect property. If you are not directly threatened there is nothing that you can do.

Other states allow you do draw and fire your gun to protect property et. al. So, it pays to know what the law is in your state so you know what you can, and cannot, do.
 

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So - it occurred to me yet again (OK this is old hat to ''the choir''!) - that no way on this small planet, can cops be out to protect our butts, it is numerically impossible and IMO something we should not (anyone) even expect.
Let me tell you why I like this. My parents (both over 60) live in a very rural and remote part of Northern PA. The closest State Police barracks is, get this, 45 minutes away. There are a couple town police officers, but the again, the closest to them is a 15 minute drive, if the town cop is even on duty (only 1 in each of the 2 small towns near them!)

My dad, an avid gun owner and concealed carrier, always says that to me when we go visit. He says how there they have to take the law into their own hands, cause if he sits and waits for the law to arrive to protect him, he will be long dead. His favorite thing to say about the subject is, "The police will get here in time to string yellow tape around my house!"

It is your duty as an American citizen to protect you and yours. Please do it!

:comeandgetsome:
 

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Wasn't it Edmund Burke...

who said something to the effect of, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"?

Glad all went well, Chris!
 

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dairycreek said:
Other states allow you do draw and fire your gun to protect property et. al. So, it pays to know what the law is in your state so you know what you can, and cannot, do.
Someone who draws a gun to steal my property is, by definition, also threatening me. BANG, BANG, BANG.
 

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I agree that it is our own responsibility to protect ourselves. And I know I that I won't just stand by and watch; don't get me wrong I don't want to play police officer (the Air Force already makes me do that several months out of the year :rolleyes: ) I will do my best to help others. But property seems different to me. Yes if they're trying to take my property they are a threat, but then again it is also just property. Material things can be replaced, I can't. (Well, I can eventually, but it'll take nine months and I really don't think my mother wants to go through that again!)
 

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I would not want to take someone's life simply because they were stealing from me. Nothing I own is worth a life, not even the life of a bottom-of-the-food-chain, pond-scum sucking, sub-human theif.

However, there is no law on any book that requires me to simply stand by and watch someone walk off with what's mine.

As far as I can tell, it is within my rights to stand between a theif and my property, or remove it from his grasp. Morally and ethically, and legally, I can do just that.

If you cannot protect what's yours, then you own nothing.

Now then, if the BG (aka: bottom-of-the-food-chain, pond-scum sucking, sub-human theif,) chooses to "take it to the next level," that would be his (it's) choice, not mine.

As weird as things get in court, I hope I never have to argue this in front of a jury. But as a matter of principal, I think the train of thought is on solid ground.

Fortunately, if you find a theif, you've found a coward. Faced with an angry, armed property owner, they tend to run. If not, then whatever they may do next would likely be a "forceable felony*," and as such, they are elevated to the rank of "legitimate target." (* in the state of Florida)

Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but I have seen them on TV.

mm
 

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Thanks mm, you put it into words much better then I could.
 

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Vision

This post reminds me of the constant need to keep peace within me, not consider it something "out there" that has to be protected from savages.

We see our own discomforts and fears in our world, and when we act as if the horror and harm is, again, "out there" without checking our own state of mind, we find threats in every direction.

With all due respect for the skills, interests and good nature of the author of this post, I find the content to be a clear example of projecting our anxiety and fear on the outside world.

That "punk" that you saw could have easily read YOUR wrestless vibe, and been eyeing you in the same manner that you conveyed to him -- defensiveness and fear.

You projected a grand scenario of "potential danger" on him and his friends -- it goes hand-in-hand with what I see in many folks these days who feel the need to be armed.

That man could have been the guy who earlier up the road helped you change a flat tire, or smiled at you when you made a joke about the weather.

YOU projected negative, unwarranted thoughts on him, without any background or information.

You have to check that. Citizens of this great world have to check that, and not tumble into the self-aggrandizing false power feelings and negative expectations that carrying a bullet machine can give us.

It's an attitude that will kill us -- maybe slowly, with ugly emotional disease, and maybe fast, pulling ourselves into trouble with our magnetic expectation of disaster.

You are what you think and perceive, and you are in charge of both.

No personal disrespect intended here, author.

We have to treat our fellow citizens, and one day, our global human community, with the best of our hearts.



Jonny
 

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Very interesting and very eloquently written.

But I'm having some difficulty putting it into some sort of context with the subject of this thread. It comes across to me as beinger seriously disconnected from the subject at hand.

Was this cut-and-pasted into this thread?

"We have to treat our fellow citizens, and one day, our global human community, with the best of our hearts."

In no way, shape, or from, do I consider a thief to be a "fellow citizen." Our "global human communtiy" is made up of sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. The "best of my heart" compells me to protect my familly, my property, and myself with all means at my disposal.

mm
 

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I understand

Hey Mike,

No, that's all my writing, and I understand how it can seem on the fringe of the context.

I've been re-evaluating my CC needs really deeply lately.
I'm 50 years old, and have adored firearms all of my life, and of course it's led to handgun/combat arms ownership and whatnot.

CC was just made legal here in Ohio, and I've just been giving my own relationship to this privilege a lot of thought. A whole lot of thought.

In doing so, what always pops up is SCENARIO. When will I need it, when will I use it?

And it's when I think of those things that I come to the very kind of thinking that I wrote above. I ask myself, will I be LOOKING for trouble, now that I'm "prepared" for it?

My answer was a resounding "YES".
And for me, that's no good.

I'm going to check the "me" out in the equation a bit more, and try to think that my fellow citizens on the average are my partners.

Not all of them, for sure, and globally, well, there are your wolves, but as much as I can, I'm not calling strangers "punks" without knowing that they really are.

That was my point. Attitude precedes performance.

My "best of my heart" is just trying to expand a bit beyond what you so nicely put about family and such. Our world is US. I want to get beyond guns-at-humans one day. It is a wonderful goal ...


Best,

Jonny
 
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