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Discussion Starter #1
I asked LEO friend of mine about this incident and I figured I would throw it out to the group for some feedback. This is an actual event that happened to me.

Coming out of work one night with the rest of my coworkers.
Time, about 10:30 PM.
Large open parking lot on the corner of a fairly busy intersection.
There are about 6 of us and the assistant manager.

The manager splits off from us and heads to his car. The rest of us are all parked together in another area so we split off form the manager. As we are walking to our cars 2 guys (one on foot and one on a bike) pass by us and head in the direction of the manager. None of us thought anything about it since people cut through the lot all the time.

The six of us were BS-ing about where to go grab a cold adult beverage when I glanced over at my managers car and saw that the two pedestrians are talking to him. Now where this store is located there used to be a collection of homeless that would hit you up for a buck or a smoke all the time. So I was aware but not alarmed.

That was until I saw the managers hands go up in the air and a gun get pointed in his face. The distance between the 2 BG and the group of us is about 50-75 yds.

Unfortunately at that time I did not have my CCL or even a weapon locked in my vehicle.
But what if I did? What would be your course of action had you been in my shoes WITH a weapon.

I look forward to the responses and will also let you know what my LEO friend recomended and what actually transpired.
 

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This is a very difficult scenario.

If you try to close the distance with the 2 BG's approaching from behind them, so as to not attract their attention, you would likely attract the attention of your manager, which would then draw their attention to you. Not good.

Even if your minimum distance calculation is correct, the possibility of a good shot from that distance is remote and a bad idea.

A couple of you could jump into your cars and drive over in an attempt to close the distance, that would make it likely that they would either start shooting at you or shoot your manager. Again bad idea.

I think the best course of action is general inaction. That is, get on your cell phone and call 911. Advise them what is happening and give an excellent discription of the 2 BG's. I would then get into my car and attempt to follow them if they depart prior to the black and white's arrival, to obtain a direction of travel and possible destination.

Overall I think, to try and engage these guys under these circumstances, would be highly dangerous and very foolish.
 

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I'm with ACParmed, the cell phone is the best option, but this should be a wake up call to remember to have a weapon with you at all times.
 

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ACParmed seems to have the right idea
 

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The distance is too great to try anything. Cell 911 and get good descriptions.
 

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cell phone #1 to call 911.
attempt to follow in vehicles the suspects.
this is where the walky talky of some cells would be perfect!
i've seen enough "cops" shows to know how to set up a perimeter with a few vehicles and cover/observe some ground.
even if the perimeter fails it would be 'cool' to try and if it fails no harm done.
(in ohio) it is not allowed to fire for property crimes so... but obviously the manager was under a weapon threat to raise his hands like he did so it not really a property crime but once the weapon went away and perps left its back to a property crime...no shooting allowed. i'd follow them as long as possible...maybe if i struck them with my vehicle in the street i'd say "hey i was following them cuz my manager was just robbed and he rode into the front of my truck!" maybe good maybe bad but no shooting while in pursuit.

i take friends getting accosted personnally, especially if i saw it happen, and would have a hard time not being emotional...maybe a character flaw on my part but...
and i drive a BIG truck.they are hard to stop sometimes..just ask bambi. (i hit a deer tuesday)
 

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That's a tough one, Not really enough information to give a practical answer for me.

We need to see everything you are seeing and what they are doing, things are different in person as to what you are seeing and what the precived threat level is. You said that your manager held his hands up, well that could either say gun, knife, broken bottle, etc.

Without being armed you didn't have much choice but to call 911. It also would depend on how smart your manager is and if he is on the same page in thinking as we all are here as to what if anything I would be doing other than calling 911.


Ti.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ti Carry said:
You said that your manager held his hands up, well that could either say gun, knife, broken bottle, etc.
I could clearly see the gun (I was at my managers 9 o'clock as he faced them). There was plenty of light in from the parking lot lights and surrounding buildings to CLEARLY make out the revolver.

One thing I forgot to mention was that none of the 6 of us had a cell phone on us (this was about 9 years ago).
 

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My gut reaction would be to yell at the perps. Let them know WE see them while the phone is callin' 911. Let them know I was calling LE.

I can't see myself just standing there watching to see what was going to happen next without doing something, no matter how small.
 

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Wow - another teaser!!!

Well most folks have covered the theory - but no phone eh?! That and no guns - tricky indeed. Even if well lit - night time and that distance another major problem.

I'd guess just perhaps a team effort with loud vocalizing and splitting up as a group - make BG's not know where any one target was but enough to make em stop what they were doing.

I am all ears to know what the suggested route was.
 

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I'm with P95. Get the group of 6 to make noise and head that way. Hopefully the perps take off. If not then a new tactic. I would tell the folks with me to spread out about 4-6 foot intervals while approaching. Makes the BGs have to cover a lot of ground or flee.

-Scott-
 

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Agree on the noise. I would add do it with the cars, honk the horn and flash the lights.
 

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Mr. Clean said:
I could clearly see the gun (I was at my managers 9 o'clock as he faced them). There was plenty of light in from the parking lot lights and surrounding buildings to CLEARLY make out the revolver.

One thing I forgot to mention was that none of the 6 of us had a cell phone on us (this was about 9 years ago).

Yea, some how I missed that in your post! didn't see wear you saw the gun in his face.


Ti
 

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I agree with acparmed and P95Carry. Even without a phone, one of the 6 should immediately head for the nearest phone to call police. The other 5 would probably do best to make alot of noise as P95Carry said, preferably in your cars and heading in the general direction of the activity. I would be very concerned with getting the manager shot if you did anything more....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
First, when I asked my LEO friend about this situation he came at me with many "what if's" and scenario twists. For example, IF I did have my gun at the time, could I have told my coworkers to go for help while I try and swing around the back of the BG, gun drawn, trying to close distance? Doubtful because with everyone scurrying to get help it would have drawn too much attention.
Because of the distance attempting a shot from that range if need be was not a good plan.
An off the wall twist that was thrown out there, what if they were undercover officers? For arguement sake, say my manager was into some crap no one knew anything about. I would then be attempting to draw on a cop. Never a good idea.

Here is how the situation turned out:
As soon as I saw the gun I (quite excitedly) informed the rest of the group around me of the situation at hand. When we realized that no one had a cell phone on them I ran across the street to a small fast food stand and told them to call the cops my manager was being robbed at gun point. It just so happened that in one of the drive through windows was a security officer that had just gotten off of work. He got on the radio and called for assistance from the police. No shots were fired. The manager kept his head and gave them what little money he had. The BG were caught about 1 mile away.
 

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Unless the gun in my car is my M1A with the Federal Gold Match 168gr rounds, I'm afraid I'd have to grab my cell and call 911. There is no way I'm taking a 75 yd shot on a BG with a friendly in close proximity. With a 45 I'd have to hold over like a mortar and it would just not be good....

One more option is to get into MY car and use it to haul A$$ right at them and count on the sudden intrusion of the vehicle to be enough of a distraction that they shift their attention to me and try not to cap the manager before doing so. I also count on pumping adrenalin to keep them from being too steady in the aim dept if they decide to take shots at me. Finally, I hope that my insurance won't be cancelled after I smear the BGs all over the front of my vehicle.

Twist: What if they're undercover cops and the manager is a drug dealer? Hopefully they have him on the ground and cuffed before I reach their proximity and the other is waving his badge in my headlights. Hopefully, I see it and I'm not too intent on flattening them....
 
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