Defensive Carry banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With good 9mm SD ammo being so expensive and generally not available in appreciable quantities (not just for carry loads but also to test out before making them carry worthy) it got me thinking about using PMC Bronze JHP range ammo for my carry needs.

It's proven - I've shot plenty of them. They're cheap at less than 50 cents a round. And they're hollow points.

Are they a good SD alternative? Thoughts?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,418 Posts
I think they are a good lower cost, higher volume second tier choice much like Remington UMC JHPs. They're no HST or Gold Dot, but they will do the job.



...GZ used these in his PF9...the spent casing was shown in some of the evidence released last year, you could see the head stamp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Until prices come down, I bought one box of 20 rds. for $25. Expensive, yes. But they will do the job and my safety and the safety of my loved ones are worth the cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
As others on here have said, any load is better than no load...and almost any modern 9mm HP is better than ball. I think people make too big of a deal out of what all the different defense loads can do, rather than finding a load they can afford to shoot well and being able to hit with it. Shot placement beats horsepower every time, and you're better off with a load you can afford to train with and that you can hit with.
I see too much talk on the net where all these people talk about the relative merits of all this super stuff...the +Ps, the Ranger-Ts, DPX, Federal HST, bonded Golden Sabers, etc. All great modern, premium-performance loads, no doubt. But what practical benefit are they if people can't get them or afford to train with them? A load that expands to 70 caliber that goes sailing past the bad guy or that a person has to wait 6 months + to buy...what good is it?
I've heard that one of the first rules of gunfighting is "have a gun", which really means "have a gun nearby when the fight starts, and you never know when that might be". Nowadays, I'd also add "have some ammo". If I didn't have my preferred hollowpoints on hand and all I could stick in a gun were budget-priced UMC hollowpoint 115, you can jolly well bet I'd load up with them. So what if it doesn't double in size or have razor-sharp petals? Hey, it'll sure discourage that "bump in the night" from breaking in your home and harming you and yours. Defense guns are ballistic life insurance. The policy needs to take effect as soon as possible to "right this minute".
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,182 Posts
When people bring this up, I just always have to ask ...... would you want to be shot by one ? And, do you think there would be a big different to you if you were shot with the PMC HP ammo or the HST ammo ?


A true comparison ....... wife shoots husband in the face 5 times with a .38 revolver, and he lived. Kid (19) shoots 76 year old man twice during a convenience store robbery with a .22 cal. gun, and he's dead.
So ..... do you think the difference between a PMC HP round and an HST round , are really that important of a difference ?

Answer the question yourself, and act accordingly. I do carry HST or HydraShok ammo, because I'll take every little difference that will add to my advantage, but is it really necessary ? ...... unlikely.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,611 Posts
If it is reliable, and it is accurate, carry it. The bg wont give a hoot which bullet you use. And if the first two dont stop him...well... you have plenty more
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,171 Posts
While I acknowledge that there's a performance difference in ammo, I wouldn't sweat it that much, either. I generally have been carrying 147 gr Federal HST in my HK USP but I don't have/can't afford to run enough of them thru my Beretta Nano to verify function, so in that gun I run 115 Gold Dot's. I figure better a good round that runs thru my gun than a great one that may not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,531 Posts
When people bring this up, I just always have to ask ...... would you want to be shot by one ? And, do you think there would be a big different to you if you were shot with the PMC HP ammo or the HST ammo ?


A true comparison ....... wife shoots husband in the face 5 times with a .38 revolver, and he lived. Kid (19) shoots 76 year old man twice during a convenience store robbery with a .22 cal. gun, and he's dead.
So ..... do you think the difference between a PMC HP round and an HST round , are really that important of a difference ?

Answer the question yourself, and act accordingly. I do carry HST or HydraShok ammo, because I'll take every little difference that will add to my advantage, but is it really necessary ? ...... unlikely.
You know, I see this statement thrown out so often in these discussions--and, personally, I think it's...well, just plain silly--and I doubt the posters have actually thought about it.

I've got two stock responses to it--one kinda bumper-stickerish, the other a bit more thought out...

So, first--I don't want to get shot with a Red Ryder BB gun--but according to your line of thought, it would make it an acceptable choice for self defense.

Second--Of course I don't want to get shot by it--I don't want to get shot by anything. The reason that I don't want to get shot is that I'm rational (at least, I like to think so). The major flaw in that thinking (if I don't want to get shot by it, it's good) is that you assume that your antagonist will be rational also...which just isn't a very smart move, in my book. There's simply too many factors that could make your opponent not even care about being shot--or hit, even; chemical, psychological, etc...

So, actually--bullet performance DOES matter.

To the OP--if it's all you got, it's all you got. But I'd sure try and find something better, and stock up on it so you don't get caught in the lurch again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,157 Posts
Chris, Once again you should be fine. Its not the latest new super duper knock em down ammo, but I think it might work.....:wink:


HST specs...

Specifications (124 GR/124 GR +P):

Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle: 1150/1200
25: 1095/1136
50: 1049/1083
75: 1010/1039
100: 977/1002

Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle: 364/396
25: 330/355
50: 303/323
75: 281/297
100: 263/277


PMC specs...

Caliber 9mm Luger
Product Line Bronze Line
Bullet Type JHP
Weight (grains) 115
Velocity-Muzzle 1160
Velocity-25 Yds 1099
Velocity-50 Yds 1049
Velocity-75 Yds 1007
Velocity-100 Yds 971
Energy at Muzzle (ft.lbs.) 344
Bullet Path-25 Yds (inch) +0.65
Bullet Path-50 Yds (inch) 0
Bullet Path-75 Yds (inch) -2.62
Bullet Path-100 Yds (inch) -7.37
 
  • Like
Reactions: DetChris

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,021 Posts
My thought is to carry the best HP ammo you can find and afford to buy. But many have fallen to 9mm hardball. Secret to the using of whatever you carry, shoot till they stop.

Why I like hi-cap carry guns.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,182 Posts
You know, I see this statement thrown out so often in these discussions--and, personally, I think it's...well, just plain silly--and I doubt the posters have actually thought about it.

I've got two stock responses to it--one kinda bumper-stickerish, the other a bit more thought out...

So, first--I don't want to get shot with a Red Ryder BB gun--but according to your line of thought, it would make it an acceptable choice for self defense.

Second--Of course I don't want to get shot by it--I don't want to get shot by anything. The reason that I don't want to get shot is that I'm rational (at least, I like to think so). The major flaw in that thinking (if I don't want to get shot by it, it's good) is that you assume that your antagonist will be rational also...which just isn't a very smart move, in my book. There's simply too many factors that could make your opponent not even care about being shot--or hit, even; chemical, psychological, etc...

So, actually--bullet performance DOES matter.

To the OP--if it's all you got, it's all you got. But I'd sure try and find something better, and stock up on it so you don't get caught in the lurch again.
I think you just made my point..... I don't want to be shot by anything, because they can all kill you or me.... and that's the whole point, isn't it ? Really , is there reallyi a debatable argument that between PMC HP vs HST ... one can kill you quicker ? Really ?

I used to work only violent crimes, and in the murderers..... we saw a lot more people killed with .22's and .25's than anything else. I'ld say shot placement made the difference, otherwise I would run out and buy me a .22 or a .25 cal handgun. I've also been shot at and shot back .... numerous times. I've seen wounds, and I've never ever seen one .... where someone did OK or better from being shot by one bullet vs another of the same caliber. Sorry, I'ld have to see something in real life outside of gelatin tests, to show me that counts that much, because there are only small mm differences in those two ammos when they expand even in gelatin.

What I have seen that has made a lot more impact to outcome is..... who is the best shot and shot placement.... those two things have a lot more to do with the "outcome" and who survives, than any differences between PMC HP and HST.

Then there are folks who argue, do I really need to carry an extra mag ..... I can't see any need for more than the 7 shots in my gun. Really ? Ok then, have fun in a gunfight...... and anytime you pull out your gun and start shooting at someone who has a gun out shooting at you ..... is a gunfight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wellcraft1

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,531 Posts
Yes--but what if your antagonist DOESN'T care about being shot, and is in a state where pain compliance doesn't matter?

As for the rest--polar bears have been killed by .22 shorts--does that mean if you were being charged by an angry one, you'd choose a .22 short to stop it?

Bullet performance matters. It is supremely naive to say otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Yes--but what if your antagonist DOESN'T care about being shot, and is in a state where pain compliance doesn't matter?

As for the rest--polar bears have been killed by .22 shorts--does that mean if you were being charged by an angry one, you'd choose a .22 short to stop it?

Bullet performance matters. It is supremely naive to say otherwise.
If your antagonist doesn't care about being shot and is in a state where pain complaince doesn't matter, you are in a bad fix, trying to stop said person with any service handgun. Just ask the deputies that had to wrestle with a suspect that had already been shot with multiple rounds of 230 grain Federal HST's. This is the kind of person who is hard to stop with a long gun, much less a pistol.

I don't think the OP, or anyone else posting in this thread, was suggesting that .22 shorts were acceptable for trying to stop people or bears. The OP simply was looking for confirmation that he has in his possession an ok load with which to hopefully save his life in a self defense emergency. I'm sorry, but I don't see the grounds for comparison, as a mature polar bear is much larger than even the largest human being. Frankly, I wouldn't be comfortable trying to stop a polar bear with any handgun short of a .460 S&W. Even then, I'd rather have a .375 H&H magnum rifle in my hands.

Yes..I agree. Bullet performance does matter, and the better said bullet does of taking a portable defense tool with relatively poor stopping power potential (compared to a long gun) and preventing a criminal from continuing to stay up and keep fighting, the better. But if a person needs protection right now, it is better that he or she have something than nothing at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,503 Posts
I'm thinking reliability of the ammo is more important than a couple of FPS or whatever. Although I have never shot any of PMCs SD ammo I have shot several thousand of their 9mm. .45ACP and .223/5.56 ammo FMJ ammo and none of it has ever failed. I would carry their SD ammo with confidence.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top