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How do you carry your SD Pistol? With a round in the Chamber - No round in chamber


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It doesn't matter to me at all how one carries as long as they are safe. What I think does matter is presenting information in an honest and truthful manner so folks trying to come to a decision on what is best for them can do so based on actual knowledge instead of rhetoric.
Now I lied? Well any way your post count is going up.:yup:
 

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I haven't scrolled through all the responses to this poll or all the others, but for those who carry a pistol with an empty chamber, how do you carry a revolver? One round down, or two? Nothing under the firing pin, nothing in the first chamber to be fired, or both? This is not really comparing apples and oranges; if you are worried about an accidental discharge (mechanical malfunction), then nothing under the firing pin. To prevent a negligent discharge (something pulled the trigger), then nothing in the first chamber to fire. No right/wrong answer, just curious as to your thought process. If this question has been asked/answered before, please let me know.
 

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I don't carry a revolver anymore but when I did I carried fully loaded and relied on the internals and trigger pull to work. I will not carry my Glocks or 1911s chambered even though I used to. I realize that this can be a disadvantage but I am around my Grandkids (4 rambunctious 4 to 8 year olds) too much to feel comfortable. I admit that It could decrease my chance of survival but I feel it lessens the chances of an AD or ND. If my concern makes me a pansy so be it but I wager I am as comfortable in my skin and my condition as anyone here and I am definitely not trying to get anybody to agree with me. I am a firm believer in freedom and choice on this issue. Here is an example of what I guess would be a NA which may have already been posted but just the kind of thing that worries me.
SAFETY WARNING! Worn Leather Holsters Can Cause Accidental Discharges! : ITS Tactical
 
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I have two CC guns: A Ruger LCP and a G27 4th gen. I have no problems carrying either one of them with a round in the chamber especially the Glock with it's safe trigger with Alien Gear holsters. When I am not carrying the LCP in an Alien Gear but in a crotch holster, I do NOT chamber a round. I feel much safer knowing I won't be shooting my manhood off as I bend over by accident LOL.
That is it exactly. Different people, different situations, maybe there is a differnt solution instead of on-size-fits-all. It doesn't.
 

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I don't carry a revolver anymore but when I did I carried fully loaded and relied on the internals and trigger pull to work. I will not carry my Glocks or 1911s chambered even though I used to. I realize that this can be a disadvantage but I am around my Grandkids (4 rambunctious 4 to 8 year olds) too much to feel comfortable. I admit that It could decrease my chance of survival but I feel it lessens the chances of an AD or ND. If my concern makes me a pansy so be it but I wager I am as comfortable in my skin and my condition as anyone here and I am definitely not trying to get anybody to agree with me. I am a firm believer in freedom and choice on this issue. Here is an example of what I guess would be a NA which may have already been posted but just the kind of thing that worries me.
SAFETY WARNING! Worn Leather Holsters Can Cause Accidental Discharges! : ITS Tactical
Again, that is exactly what I am saying, and thank you for your example. It is a matter of choice and freedom and each person should decide what advantages and disadvanteages fit into their situation the best. You have balanced the remote need for speed against the probable need for ancreased safety and in your situation that resulted in a decision for C3. Others may come to a different conclusion. But to try to argue that one is always better than the other or that one has no utility for everyone all the time flies in the face of reality.
 

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Again, that is exactly what I am saying, and thank you for your example. It is a matter of choice and freedom and each person should decide what advantages and disadvanteages fit into their situation the best. You have balanced the remote need for speed against the probable need for ancreased safety and in your situation that resulted in a decision for C3. Others may come to a different conclusion. But to try to argue that one is always better than the other or that one has no utility for everyone all the time flies in the face of reality.
Wonder if you had to set your theories to reality ever. The real weapon is our brain, with training. Then just practical application.
 

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Wonder if you had to set your theories to reality ever. The real weapon is our brain, with training. Then just practical application.
If you mean have I ever carried C3 yes, I have, as have many others. In spite of all the handwringing, nobody has ever been able to show that there is any significant difference in successful outcomes between C3 and C1 that I've seen. I have my preferences but I don't think that I know what is best for everyone else all the time.
 

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If you mean have I ever carried C3 yes, I have, as have many others. In spite of all the handwringing, nobody has ever been able to show that there is any significant difference in successful outcomes between C3 and C1 that I've seen. I have my preferences but I don't think that I know what is best for everyone else all the time.
Too Bad!
 

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I'm sure all those IDF guys, the SAS, and countless Marines, soldiers and who carried (and still carry) with an empty chamber would disagree with that claim.
I am not sure what the modern day procedure is but before I got discharged in 1955 at Quantico. When with the 1st Mar. Div. in Korea all MLR line companies had clips in the M-1's which put one in the breech when the bolt was closed. The safety on the trigger housing had better be to the rear (on) if you didn't want to get your a** kicked by an NCO. We had artillery shell containers sunk in the ground for urination purpose's. A nature call at night required a pitch black walk of 25 yards or more to get from the bunker to the tube. The M-1 safety had a distinct click. As you walked humming Yankee Doodle or counter sign password knowledge helped the digestive system when hearing the safeties click off. Going into battalion or regimental reserve as you entered the CP areas there were signs posted that read all weapons must be unloaded. In other words when moving up to the line all weapons were ready to go after leaving the reserve areas. 'Chesty' Puller holder of 5 Navy Cross's and a cousin of George Patton.. Good night Chesty where ever you are. J.
 

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Always remember, that hand you are using to rack the slide could be used to block the blow from a knife. You are removing a defensive weapon from your arsenal to chamber a round. If you are that concerned about a round going off by accident, take a concealed carry class and learn some holstering techniques that make it nearly impossible.
 

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One in the pipe and full 7R in the mag.

Don't you?
 

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What is the sense to carry a firearm with no round chambered, thats like trying to drive a car without gas, you don't accomplish anything.
 

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I am not sure what the modern day procedure is but before I got discharged in 1955 at Quantico. When with the 1st Mar. Div. in Korea all MLR line companies had clips in the M-1's which put one in the breech when the bolt was closed. The safety on the trigger housing had better be to the rear (on) if you didn't want to get your a** kicked by an NCO. We had artillery shell containers sunk in the ground for urination purpose's. A nature call at night required a pitch black walk of 25 yards or more to get from the bunker to the tube. The M-1 safety had a distinct click. As you walked humming Yankee Doodle or counter sign password knowledge helped the digestive system when hearing the safeties click off. Going into battalion or regimental reserve as you entered the CP areas there were signs posted that read all weapons must be unloaded. In other words when moving up to the line all weapons were ready to go after leaving the reserve areas. 'Chesty' Puller holder of 5 Navy Cross's and a cousin of George Patton.. Good night Chesty where ever you are. J.
Exactly. In one area or one situation it was felt C3 was the better option, in another it was felt that C1 was the better option. One size does not fit all. And I love my M-1 Garand<G>!
 

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I'm sure all those IDF guys, the SAS, and countless Marines, soldiers and who carried (and still carry) with an empty chamber would disagree with that claim.
Yeah, about those Marines who carried with an empty chamber...

1) Perhaps you remember a little incident called the 1983 Beirut Barracks Bombing? No?
Allow me to refresh your memory then.
In 1983, two-hundred and ninety-nine service members of the U.S. and France were killed when a truck was driven past the gates of the compound, driven in a circle in the parking lot and then detonated at the barracks.
One will note that the phrase 'driven in a circle in the parking lot' this took more than a mere moment, it took seconds. Still, in spite of having this time, the Marine guards did not have time to insert magazines and chamber a round in their rifles.

Guess who's guards don't carry in that condition any more.


2) As a retired soldier and graduate of several combat schools, I can assure you that the only time I or anyone else carried at Condition-3 was when we were carrying "administratively." Rifles are empty in helicopters and by parachutists* (well, as far as they knew I wasn't loaded) because the weapons are being transported, not because they are being carried.

* Two reasons for that, 1) an inserted 30-round magazine makes it difficult to open the zipper on an M1950 weapons case, most troopers found it quicker to tape the magazine to the sling so it wouldn't get lost. 2) It's kinda hard to poke your finger through 3/8" of padding and canvas to pull a trigger when it's encased. Oh, and 3) as the M1950 weapons case is hooked to your harness and tied to the leg there's always the problem of aiming, not that you could do much on a jump from 800ft AGL.

3) Having spoken to more than a few members of the IDF in my career, the subject of carrying Condition-3 of course came up. It's not done from any ideology of being either better or quicker. It's a policy of 'dumbing things down to the lowest common denominator'. When the state of Israel came into being, they were scrounging world wide for any and all arms they could to provide for their own defense. Krags served alongside Mausers and Maxims. An '03 Springfield was as likely to be seen as an M1 rifle or M1 carbine.

It's hard enough to teach a single, dedicated person the quirks of a dozen separate weapons systems. The challenge of teaching tens of thousands of non-dedicated personnel the quirks of a dozen systems is beyond being merely daunting, it's impossible. However, it's not hard at all to teach someone the one single step common to all those systems, loading.
So, to enable the maximum number of persons to operate the maximum number of differing weapons safely, they were all taught to keep their arms unloaded until trouble presented itself. It's not perfect and no doubt some died because they were unprepared, but in the grand scheme of things a few losses are acceptable.


Unfortunately, 'in the grand scheme of things' when it comes down to being a single individual a single loss is not an acceptable loss.
 

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Yeah, about those Marines who carried with an empty chamber...

1) Perhaps you remember a little incident called the 1983 Beirut Barracks Bombing? No?
Allow me to refresh your memory then.
In 1983, two-hundred and ninety-nine service members of the U.S. and France were killed when a truck was driven past the gates of the compound, driven in a circle in the parking lot and then detonated at the barracks.
One will note that the phrase 'driven in a circle in the parking lot' this took more than a mere moment, it took seconds. Still, in spite of having this time, the Marine guards did not have time to insert magazines and chamber a round in their rifles.

Guess who's guards don't carry in that condition any more.


2) As a retired soldier and graduate of several combat schools, I can assure you that the only time I or anyone else carried at Condition-3 was when we were carrying "administratively." Rifles are empty in helicopters and by parachutists* (well, as far as they knew I wasn't loaded) because the weapons are being transported, not because they are being carried.

* Two reasons for that, 1) an inserted 30-round magazine makes it difficult to open the zipper on an M1950 weapons case, most troopers found it quicker to tape the magazine to the sling so it wouldn't get lost. 2) It's kinda hard to poke your finger through 3/8" of padding and canvas to pull a trigger when it's encased. Oh, and 3) as the M1950 weapons case is hooked to your harness and tied to the leg there's always the problem of aiming, not that you could do much on a jump from 800ft AGL.

3) Having spoken to more than a few members of the IDF in my career, the subject of carrying Condition-3 of course came up. It's not done from any ideology of being either better or quicker. It's a policy of 'dumbing things down to the lowest common denominator'. When the state of Israel came into being, they were scrounging world wide for any and all arms they could to provide for their own defense. Krags served alongside Mausers and Maxims. An '03 Springfield was as likely to be seen as an M1 rifle or M1 carbine.

It's hard enough to teach a single, dedicated person the quirks of a dozen separate weapons systems. The challenge of teaching tens of thousands of non-dedicated personnel the quirks of a dozen systems is beyond being merely daunting, it's impossible. However, it's not hard at all to teach someone the one single step common to all those systems, loading.
So, to enable the maximum number of persons to operate the maximum number of differing weapons safely, they were all taught to keep their arms unloaded until trouble presented itself. It's not perfect and no doubt some died because they were unprepared, but in the grand scheme of things a few losses are acceptable.


Unfortunately, 'in the grand scheme of things' when it comes down to being a single individual a single loss is not an acceptable loss.


CORRECT!:yup:
 

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(1). OK, you're telling me that in the several seconds it took for the BGs to break through a compound gate and drove around in a circle two time several Marines couldn't get a magazine out of their mag pouch, insert it in the firearm, and engage the enemy? Doesn't sound like having a chamber empty was the problem, does it?
(2). Our military experience differs, as I remember regularly carrying without a round in the chamber, including when doing things like guard duty, manning the gate, etc. And this does seem to contradict the issue you stated for (1) as apparently there were a number of folks there also carrying chamber empty. But even with that, it only proves what I have said. You admit that there were times when it was felt that chamber empty was a better solution than chamber loaded. Different situations, different solutions. Not hard to understand.
(3). Exactly. A group of fairly savvy gun users looked at their particular needs and their particular situation and came to the conclusion that C3 was a better choice than C1. You seem to be supporting my point. C1 and C3 both have their advantages and disadvantages, and each person should look at their particular needs and their particular situation, then make a choice that tends to give the greatest advantages and the least disadvantages.
 

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(1). OK, you're telling me that in the several seconds it took for the BGs to break through a compound gate and drove around in a circle two time several Marines couldn't get a magazine out of their mag pouch, insert it in the firearm, and engage the enemy? Doesn't sound like having a chamber empty was the problem, does it?
In the most polite and non-insulting way, that is/was exactly the problem. The gate guards did not have rounds chambered and therefore could not protect the very people they were charged with protecting. If I recall the Rules of Engagement correctly they required permission to load their rifles. The astute reader will note that Marine (and other services) guards no longer perform their duties the same way.

(2). Our military experience differs, as I remember regularly carrying without a round in the chamber, including when doing things like guard duty, manning the gate, etc. And this does seem to contradict the issue you stated for (1) as apparently there were a number of folks there also carrying chamber empty. But even with that, it only proves what I have said. You admit that there were times when it was felt that chamber empty was a better solution than chamber loaded. Different situations, different solutions. Not hard to understand.
My apologies but, yes, it is quite difficult for me to understand how one can actually 'guard' anything when one is not equipped to do any actual 'guarding'. Then again, one must remember that merely being employed as a service member does not imbue one with any particular skill-at-arms. The majority of the services (not in time of war) only train for safety and only only fire for record.

Back during Desert Shield, I remember "guarding" an American caserne in Germany with an unloaded rifle and with the ammunition for said rifle safely stored in an arms room. Reacting to a threat to my fellow soldiers would have been impossible. When "protection" was extended to housing areas, even the illusion of being armed was removed and we were given sticks to beat off any Uzi-wielding terrorists who wished to slay American families.

(3). Exactly. A group of fairly savvy gun users looked at their particular needs and their particular situation and came to the conclusion that C3 was a better choice than C1. You seem to be supporting my point. C1 and C3 both have their advantages and disadvantages, and each person should look at their particular needs and their particular situation, then make a choice that tends to give the greatest advantages and the least disadvantages.
Errr.. you do realize the point I was making was NOT that there were any "savvy gun owners"* but an untrained, rag tag mob of pressed into service citizens equipped with a hodge-podge of sometimes illicitly acquired arms of dubious provenance, don't you?

Even the Israeli's don't claim it's an advantage, they admit that it's solely there to reduce the chances of a negligent discharge in a military compose of short-term conscripts. Border guards (with adequate or at least better training carry Condition-1, the cute Israeli girls down in Eliat carry with the magazine out of the weapon, (Condition-4). Again, not for any supposed advantage but to reduce ND's with an untrained force.

The 'chamber a round only immediately before use' was not in ANY Way an advantage, it was a necessary evil chosen solely to answer the need for safety over readiness. As I said, the Israelis could afford the odd citizen-cum-soldier becoming a casualty if the overall safety of the group was preserved. When you are the group, you can't afford to lose that single citizen because that citizen is you.

* Exactly how a nascent nation state created out of nothingness, with no military, by a group of persons not only officially disarmed but having recently been subject to anti-Semitic pograms and a systematic massacre of the population is somehow "gun savvy" is something I'll leave to the imagination of others.
 
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