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How do you carry your SD Pistol? With a round in the Chamber - No round in chamber


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Note that Tier-1 military units in the IMF run with chambered rounds in their sidearms, that the Israelis are not the only military by a long shot (as has been noted previously) that mandate unchambered carry in most areas, and that in Israel unchambered carry is not as universal and common as many think. Also, unchambered carry is not part of the Israeli system of shooting. The same technique is used under the Israeli system whether a round is chambered or not.
 

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In the most polite and non-insulting way, that is/was exactly the problem. The gate guards did not have rounds chambered and therefore could not protect the very people they were charged with protecting. If I recall the Rules of Engagement correctly they required permission to load their rifles. The astute reader will note that Marine (and other services) guards no longer perform their duties the same way.
The example of the gate guards is way different than condition 3 carry. With condition 3 carry, you don't need to locate and insert a magazine. Nor do you have to obtain permission before doing so. If the guards had been carrying condition 3, they would have only needed to press the bolt release which would have taken a 1/2 second at most...plenty of time to bring their weapon into action and stop the threat.
 

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Well I haven't been carrying with one chambered but I have been re-thinking this whole process of....what if?
It's always a good idea to occasionally re-evaluate the way you do things. Sometimes you reinforce what you've learned, sometimes you learn new things. And sometimes you just get a melted brain.

For me, personally, and everyone is free to decide for themselves; carrying in such a manner that your reaction is slowed and extra manipulation of a weapon is required in an emergency just doesn't make tactical sense.

My take on things is that we don't carry because we're about to do evil, we carry as a response to evil that has happened. That said, the quicker one can respond to evil, generally the better off one will be.
 

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In the most polite and non-insulting way, that is/was exactly the problem. The gate guards did not have rounds chambered and therefore could not protect the very people they were charged with protecting. If I recall the Rules of Engagement correctly they required permission to load their rifles. The astute reader will note that Marine (and other services) guards no longer perform their duties the same way.
And in an equally polite way, if it takes that long to get a magazineout and chamber a round, C3 is not the problem. Heck, pretty much by definition the Marinesw were carring C4, so the whole thing haas llittle bearing on the discussion.
My apologies but, yes, it is quite difficult for me to understand how one can actually 'guard' anything when one is not equipped to do any actual 'guarding'. Then again, one must remember that merely being employed as a service member does not imbue one with any particular skill-at-arms. The majority of the services (not in time of war) only train for safety and only only fire for record.
I odn't know, maybe we were trained a little differently when I was in, but I just don't remember folks having much trouble chambering a round when it was needed. I don't think any of us felt we were under-equipped with a C3 gun, be it rifle, pistol or shotgun.
Back during Desert Shield, I remember "guarding" an American caserne in Germany with an unloaded rifle and with the ammunition for said rifle safely stored in an arms room. Reacting to a threat to my fellow soldiers would have been impossible. When "protection" was extended to housing areas, even the illusion of being armed was removed and we were given sticks to beat off any Uzi-wielding terrorists who wished to slay American families.
Again, as neither of those examples has anything to do with C3 carry I'm not sure why you would bring them up.
Errr.. you do realize the point I was making was NOT that there were any "savvy gun owners"* but an untrained, rag tag mob of pressed into service citizens equipped with a hodge-podge of sometimes illicitly acquired arms of dubious provenance, don't you?
SUre, but that is my point. All gun owners ARE NOT "savvy gun owners" with lots of training and experience. And thta might be one of the situations where their needs would be better addressed by C3 carry.
Even the Israeli's don't claim it's an advantage, they admit that it's solely there to reduce the chances of a negligent discharge in a military compose of short-term conscripts. Border guards (with adequate or at least better training carry Condition-1, the cute Israeli girls down in Eliat carry with the magazine out of the weapon, (Condition-4). Again, not for any supposed advantage but to reduce ND's with an untrained force.
Right. so once again there are situations where C3 is the better choice (advantage). Don't see how that is any different than anything I've said.
The 'chamber a round only immediately before use' was not in ANY Way an advantage, it was a necessary evil chosen solely to answer the need for safety over readiness. As I said, the Israelis could afford the odd citizen-cum-soldier becoming a casualty if the overall safety of the group was preserved. When you are the group, you can't afford to lose that single citizen because that citizen is you.
Getting repetitive, but then again, it seems you agree there are situations where C3 is the better choice than C1, just as there are situations where C1 might be better than C3.

* Exactly how a nascent nation state created out of nothingness, with no military, by a group of persons not only officially disarmed but having recently been subject to anti-Semitic pograms and a systematic massacre of the population is somehow "gun savvy" is something I'll leave to the imagination of others.[/QUOTE]
 

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Note that Tier-1 military units in the IMF run with chambered rounds in their sidearms, that the Israelis are not the only military by a long shot (as has been noted previously) that mandate unchambered carry in most areas, and that in Israel unchambered carry is not as universal and common as many think. Also, unchambered carry is not part of the Israeli system of shooting. The same technique is used under the Israeli system whether a round is chambered or not.
Right. Different situations, different needs, different solutions.
 

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Well I haven't been carrying with one chambered but I have been re-thinking this whole process of....what if?
thta is the way to do it. Don't carry one way or the other jsut because someone has said that is the way they do it. You need to look at your needs, your situation, and then make a decision that gives you the greatest advantages with the least disadvantages. That may be C1, it may be C3. Fortunately the difference rarely matters.
 

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Seems like not having a round chambered would lose about 1.0 seconds in the presentation to fire. One must be able to present and fire 2 rounds in no more than 1.8 seconds at 7 yards. At least that was what I was taught.
 

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Assuming you actually train to do it you rack the slide as part of your draw stroke and loose very little time. Nothing close to a second; probably closer to 0.1 or 0.2.
It's only real limitation is that it requires 2 hands.
So, for guard/patrol duty it should work fine.
The potential issue I see is that I'm not on active guard duty. I very well might have one hand busy when/if I need to draw. So for self defense I prefer one in the chamber.
I also prefer no active safeties (and 9mm, and trijicons, and winchester ranger t, etc)

But I - like, probably, most people who go to the trouble of participating in SD forums - shoot a lot. And when I'm not shooting I practice my draw, mag changes, and malfunction clearing with snap caps. When I grab a gun my natural instinct is to index the trigger.
I'm always keenly aware (if not quite nervous) when I'm handling a loaded/chocked gun, but I'm also very comfortable with my gun handling ability.
To make my life even easier, I have a lock box on the wall next to my bed so I can just pull off my holster at the end of the day and lock the whole package up.

But I am - and I imagine a lot of you are - not typical.
For a lot of people condition 3 makes a lot of sense:
People who have to load and unload their gun on a regular basis.
People who want to carry a gun in something that doesn't cover the holster - like a pocket or a purse.
People who haven't spent enough time working on their draw stroke to know that they're not going to hit the trigger.
People who don't carry often.

It is undeniably a bit slower, but it's also undeniably safer.
So you choose what works best for you.

A round in the chamber is what works for me.

No need for everyone to get ask twisted up when other people don't make exactly the same choices.
 

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I guess I would either do it one way or the other all the time. Otherwise it would be too confusing to remember which was going on. I don't have a training method for what u describe, nor do I need one since I only carry one way. Always one in the chamber. When I pick up or unholster my weapon I first chamber check to make certain a round is chambered. One of the reasons I only train and carry Sigs is that they are designed to be carried safely with one in the chamber.
 

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I guess I would either do it one way or the other all the time. Otherwise it would be too confusing to remember which was going on. I don't have a training method for what u describe, nor do I need one since I only carry one way. Always one in the chamber. When I pick up or unholster my weapon I first chamber check to make certain a round is chambered. One of the reasons I only train and carry Sigs is that they are designed to be carried safely with one in the chamber.
Most guns are, not just Sigs.
 

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Most guns are, not just Sigs.
I agree, but some are safer than others. I have had many others, 1911s, striker fire, and prefer the Sig DA/SA system and decocker. That's just me, and of course others will have different preferences. I feel confident in my training routine that I can safely handle and shoot and never feel uncomfortable with one in the pipe.
 

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I will be now... I have become very comfortable with my lc9 and since my CCW was issued it won't be carried any other way!
 
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I have a round chambered in all 5 or 6 chambers depending on if I am carrying a J Frame/SP101 or K, L, or N Frame or a Ruger GP100 in Revolvers. I primarily carry revolvers by the way.

When I carry my 1911 it is Cocked and Locked with a round chambered. I have carryed it that way for 40 years.

In my opinion if you do not feel safe with a round in the chamber, you need a lot more training, and range time.

Just my 2 cents without reading all 92 Pages of Opinions.

Bob R
 

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I want to know the number of NDs that have happened to the chambered folks in this thread over the years. Lol
 

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Chambered always, I find that some slides pull harder than others ( M&P Shield for one ) I would hate to find out that the round failed to load in the heat of the moment, to many other things to think about.
 
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