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A Glock Rep. came to my Police Department yesterday and met with me regarding our duty issued weapons. Cool guy, down to earth fella. After about a hour of back in forth about what our PD should do with our out dated 22's, he was about to leave so I asked. Whats up with the new Flat Dark Earth Glocks and where can I get one for personal use. He tells me something that had me scratching my head, he told me that when color gets mixed into the polymer it actually weakens the frame of the pistol. Some of you guys probably already knew that but I was like ........wwwwhhhhattttt? According to him though, unless you shoot about 30,000 rounds or something crazy you shouldn't worry about it, also said that black was the strongest frame they had......which led me into my next question.....isn't black a color?
 

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Yeah, I haven't ever heard of it until then. I don't understand why it would matter what color the frame is. I don't know, he also did say though that the new night sights that Glock installs on the Gen 4's have about a 15 year life-span on them.
 

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I thought I read Magpul had some issues with coloring p mags and durability at one point as well.
 

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Possibly, he said that all colored polymer framed firearms are actually weaker, didn't matter who produced them, FNX, Glock, S&W etc. I guess the same for mags and add-ons. I told him I had a O.D. Glock 23 Gen 3 and that I've had 0 issues with the frame. He told me to keep a check under the breech, this seems to be the area they all crack at. Of course he threw in the don't worry, we'll fix you up for free.
 

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Yeah, I haven't ever heard of it until then. I don't understand why it would matter what color the frame is.
It's not the color, per se, obviously. "Color" additive is just a chemical like anything else. The color's irrelevant, but chemicals can alter how the composites cure, same as temperature, presence of impurities, etc. Apparently, some of the commonly-added ones make a marked difference in durability of the material.

Something to keep in mind when any different chemical blend is used in these polymers. Unless they specifically test such variants to the degree they test the "plain/black" formulas, they're rolling the dice with assumptions. As is apparently the case, here. Not unsurprising, really, except for the fact it's Glock. One would think they'd be beyond that, with the reputation they've built.
 

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Sounds like a chem nerd to me. Just ignore him and get the color you like.

Additive Effects in Polymers
Pigmenting additives can be used to alter the color of a polymer material, which is beneficial for a range of consumer products. However, some pigments can increase a polymer’s susceptibility to chemical reactions, making careful selection an important step in the pigmentation process. Pigments such as carbon black do not react to corrosives, but clay and other hydrophilic additives are water absorbent, which may harm certain polymers. Likewise, carbonate pigments, such as limestone, can make material susceptible to corrosion from inorganic acids. These effects can be mitigated with the addition of bonding agents, such as organosilane, which helps compensate for a lack of bonds between the pigment and the polymer molecules.
 

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"... and Yellow Dye #5 ... everything a growin' boy needs." - Sgt. Powell in Die Hard, 1988.
 

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Hmmm...

103 years old. Rode hard and put up wet, yet no frame weakness to date. Steel'll do that for ya'.


Seriously though, I've never heard this before now. Having a hard time swallowing that one.

But, if the Glock rep said it ...
 

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Wow....hadn't heard that before. Thanks for putting the information out here for us.
 

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I have noticed with Kydex, the lighter the color, the softer the material. For use on holsters it doesn't really make a difference, but I can tell a difference between sanding lighter colors and black.
 

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I know a lot from my oil painting about color permanence. Oil paintings dry by Polymerization of the oils in contact with the air.
All professional BEST QUALITY oil (paint) colors are graded by permanence based on the pigments used to formulate the individual colors.
Some oil paints have high degrees of permanence and some are very low and are not light-fast.
Some colors cannot be intermixed with some other colors due to chemical reactions that take place over time between certain pigments.
Especially the metallic and metallic oxide based colors.
A Lead based WHITE is extremely permanent but, the Lead will react with certain other metallic based pigments mixed into it.
ZINC White is worse yet. The newest White is a CERAMIC White which is completely inert.

All of the DYE based pigments lack permanence. Certain pigments suffer from slow decomposition mostly due to exposure to ultraviolet light.
Take for example BLUE. The most permanent and inert BLUES are very expensive. So other (more modern) chemical BLUES have been formulated that are very pretty but, are not as permanent or as stable. Purple is very impermanent because it is usually formulated from organic dye pigments.
But, the most permanent blue/purple is formulated from powdered Lapis (a semi precious stone) and it is incredibly expensive at $150.00 per tube.

I could go on and on and bore folks to death but, in short it really is a science unto itself. When you really get into oil painting you almost have to be a chemist as well as an artist if you want your painting to last through the ages. :yup:

But, the short answer is YES certain pigments can eventually degrade whatever plastics based materials they are mixed into.
I'm certain that you have all seen billboards exposed to sunlight where certain colors have completely bleached out of the artwork and some colors remain dark and perfect.
That would be a good example because most printing inks are polymer based.
ORANGE is usually very impermanent. Ever see how those construction cone that they put out on the streets always get bleached out until they are almost white?
 

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Slightly off the subject at hand but, having read QKShooter's post, I'm wondering if there isn't something to this. Especially with black belts.

Has anyone noticed how black belts always fall apart before similar brown belts do?

Is it because of the particular die in the leather?
 

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I still like my OD Glock

30,000 rounds...:scratchchin:

:hmmmm:

100 rounds month x 12 = 1,200
30,000 / 1,200 = 25

Would last 25 years if shot 100 times a month, every month.

:c-yes4:
 

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Great stuff and great discussion, but having never heard anything about this before I have to admit I'm skeptical. In this day and age of frivolous law suits, and if this information were indeed accurate it would be something known to every chemist in the world, I'm having a hard time believing Glock would let something go out the door that didn't meet their standards for quality and durability. I'm having a hard time Glock would let something go out the door that didn't exactly match every other gun they shipped.

I know I'm getting to be a cynical old fart, but that just doesn't make sense to me.
 

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That's a great post QK, and certainly worth noting -- you obviously know much more about this than I do. My skepticism is purely emotional and heartfelt, not backed by any facts.

But what I really want to see ..... is some of your paintings. Totally off the subject, but candidly I don't really care. :image035:
 
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