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Discussion Starter #1
GLASER (Silver & Blue). MagSafe. BeeSafe. POWRBALL. RBCD.

I have a buddy who is an 05 in SpecOps and he SWEARS by RBCD says that if he had ONE SHOT between him and the END he\'d be loaded with RBCD. Stuff is something $48 for 20rds and that\'s with my NRA Instructors discount.

I like the idea that there is less risk of ricochets and less risk of a TNT (Thru N Thru) gunshot wound on a perp thereby endangering some innocent bystander behind the bad guy, because real world situations aren\'t always like they say in the range safety manuals and you can\'t ALWAYS be sure of what is behind your target.

I also like the idea that they dump all of their energy into the target and create multiple wound channels thus creating greater hydrostatic shock effects. I think this translates into better \"stopping power.\"

I usually load MagSafe 45ACP \"Super SWAT\" loads into my primary mag on the carry gun. Backup mags are always conventional JHP ammo like Hydra-Shok or Golden Saber. Does anybody have any experience with the frangible ammo? They all feed well in each of my carry guns and they are accurate as well.
 

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RBCD

Lots of hype, little testing done other than by the owners hyping the ammo.

As far as the rest of the frangibles, lets not forget the primary task. Hitting the target in an area that results in changing the target\'s mind about what he is doing.

Handgun ammo is weak at best. IMO, too much is given away in the frangible ammo. A pure frontal shot into a lightly clothed individual of average build, the frangible may work. Same shot into a 350lb person might make him mad. Going thru the arm into chest would be tough job for a frangible.

For me the idea of spending the cost of the gun to proof 200 rounds of ammo in a semi auto, just does not make sense. Very lightweight ammo does not have the same recoil impulse as 180 to 230 gr ammo has in a 1911 firearm. POI changes with bullet weight.

My Commander on my hip has Cor Bon PowerBall in it. This 165gr leaves my commander at about 1125fps. Shoots a little low at 15yards.

For jello information on this round, visit www.stoppingpower.net.

I think we have to be very careful about taking information in the gun magazines for the gospel.
 

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Many years ago I tried the blue Glaser and at 50'couldn\'t hit paper useing a Combat Commander. Then read over years where have done poorly on street. I\'ll stick with 230 HP
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Frangible ammo

Good points all. I don\'t use Glaser anymore, but I do carry the MagSafe and POW-R-BALL from Corbon. RBCD is just plain too damn expensive! I also think that RBCD having this \"DEADLY REP\" (deserved or NOT) might be a disadvantage if I had to go to court.

When I\'m in a colder climate I only carry std JHP factory ammo. But I live in South Florida and so I\'m likely only going to have to get thru a T-Shirt. Shooting a FAT GUY is also a problem I hadn\'t contemplated, as is the comment about getting thru the arm bone to get to the lungs.

I always aim high in the chest plate but who the heck is going to be THAT much \"ON TARGET\" in a StressFire\" situation?

I think I\'m still going to stay with MagSafe here in South Florida for the benefits of no TNT gunshot wounds and the lack of richochets. But maybe I\'ll only carry a few in the mag....at the top. Say the first FOUR rounds. If I have to fire beyond that....
 

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Ive tried the glazer and corbon and keepgoing back toa 230 grain with a big hollow point in it for my 45 and Winchester 147 sxt for 9mm.

Never got the accuracy out of the funky rounds or feed reailbty that i did with normal stuff
 

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An instructor I had said for CCW and home defense use, use the same ammunition that the local police use. In my neck of the woods (the desert actually) that would be Golden Saber. I will do whatever I can to make my defense attorney\'s job easier when it comes to getting my old arse outta jail. :p
 

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I belive if it was a good shooting that the police could care less about what type of bullet you were useing as long was a factory round Bubba\'s 44 mag shooting strighten out fish hooks might be a bit of trouble.
 

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PoweRBall is not a prefrag.

It\'s a jhp with a plastic nose-ball in the hp cavity, that\'s all. Maybe YOU \"think\" that the 1000 ft lbs of a 10mm RBCD is \"feeble\", but it\'s TWICE as effective as was the 44-40 lfp that \"won the west\", or the .30 Carbine which so many VERY battle hardened vets preferred (over the Thompson or the Garand) when those guns used ball ammo. The ball bullet or lfp wastes at LEAST 1/3rd of its power on overpenetration.

\"Placement\" of a bullet, in a fight, is mostly bs. If you COULD reliably hit the heart, you could also hit the brain, same sized target. The brai- is 10x as likely to get the instant stop that you need as is the heart-hit.
 

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230 gr jhp\'s rarely expand much in flesh.

Anybody can prove that to themselves, on animals. 4\" and shorter barrels practically guarantee than non-plus P 230 gr jhp\'s wont expand in flesh. They will only be going 750-800 fps, and that just aint fast enough.
 

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yeah, maybe 20 years ago.

Winchester rangers and speer gold dots will do just fine in 230gr out of short barrels.

Don\'t get drawn in by the \"ft/lb\'s\" crowd. energy dumped into the target is meaningless. You want deep penetration and expansion if possible. Prefrags are usually light fast, and lack sufficient penetration to reach vial organs and the CNS.
 

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usually, that\'s the case, but it doesn\'t HAVE

to be. It\'s why I designed the spliit nose prefrag. A cast bullet,made out of non-lead solder, which weighs about 105 grs as it drops out of the .45 swc mold (Lee 155 gr) Then it\'s hollowbased to 75 grs (in a lathe, using an aluminum collet-mandrel so that the bullet isn\'t distorted) and the hollowpt and deepening and widening of the grease groove makes it weigh 70 grs. It has to be sized .453\", just to keep it in the barrel long enough to get it to 2300 fps, in the Rowland case and a Commander barrel. It will achieve 2200 fps in a 5\" .45 ACP barrel (fully supported) The charge in the Rowland case is 13.5-14.0 grs of Bullseye (depending upon the barrel, In the .45 ACP case,it\'s 12.0 grs of Bullseye. 8 grs wont even cycle the slide of a Govt modle, using a 20 lb recoil spring. So no, 12 grsis not a lot, not with this bullet. have to use the Lee Sizing tool, and Lee bullet lube, case the solid tin bullet is too hard to be sized in normal lube-sizer tool.

The nose of the bullet is slit, with a .008\" wide slitting tool, in a horizontal lathe, almost back to the grease groove.

At these high v impacts, the Split Nose breaks into 3 segments at the grease groove. The rear segment is a deep penetrating, nose-heavy, full wadcutter shape. You get 3 wound channels, with overlapping temporary caviities ripping up the tissues in between them.

No, 230 gr Gold dots don\'t expand in flesh, at 800 fps. What they do in jello is IRRELEVANT. Go shoot some animals, you\'ll see that I am correct. Quit just SWALLOWING the bs claims of the ammo and bullet makers.
 

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To get an idea of what\'s going on, GunKid always claims to shoot dog with his loads, anybodys'dog he can find. Another reason to say bye bye!
 

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RBCD

OOPs!!

Earlier post was wrong. This is Cirillo\'s design. Sanow tested it rather extensivly in The book \'Stopping Power\'.
 

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Originally posted by meme
No, 230 gr Gold dots don\'t expand in flesh, at 800 fps. What they do in jello is IRRELEVANT. Go shoot some animals, you\'ll see that I am correct. Quit just SWALLOWING the bs claims of the ammo and bullet makers.
Blatantly false, but lets not try to cloud your arguments with facts. http://www.btammolabs.com/fackler/winchester_9mm.pdf
 

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Doc Roberts is in the process of thoroughly testing RBCD. My guess is it will be just another gimmick round. Shawn Dodson tested the Magsafe on his excellent site and found it had inadequate penetration. I give no credibility whatsoever to the M&S one-shot stopping percentages. I\'ll stay with Ranger T and Gold Dots. Your results may vary.
 

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I did some testing with the prefrags in an old barn we had. Sadly, most of the bullets, small shot embedded in clear plastic inside a hollow point - most of these penetrated various walls in the barn like a paper punch!!!!!!!! I don\'\'t use prefrag any more. I also found that they do not penetrate far enough to make me happy about using them... and then there is the price!!!!!!!!!!

I am a devout fan of GDHP by Speer, Black Hills or Double Tap, in each caliber.
 

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http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm

MagSafe Ammunition Demonstrates Inadequate Terminal Performance for General-Purpose Personal Defense Use

So-called \"performance ammunition,\" a marketing moniker for cartridges that propel lightweight bullets at high-velocity, are mostly a poor choice for general-purpose personal defense use. These bullets typically require best-case conditions, such as an unobstructed shot to the upper torso, to produce an effective, fight stopping wound. Put a commonly encountered obstacle into the path of these bullets, like a hand or an arm, and these wonder bullets can be easily defeated.
 

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SORRY FOLKS!

I absolutely (but respectfully) disagree with you concerning the GLASER SAFETY SLUG. I shoot on my own property in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania which gives me a bit more leeway to do bizarro bullet tests.
I spent about $150.00 smacks of my own hard earned American dollars testing the Glaser & it\'s fantastic.
I am impressed & I carry it. SEE THEIR VIDEO FOR YOURSELF & then comment back here. It\'s a 3.5 minute sound video.
GLASER CLICK HERE Scroll down to the text & click on the video hyperlink.
 
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