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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello.

I originally tried to obtain a Missouri CCW (I'm a Missouri resident) about 5 years ago after completing the course, submitting, my application and paying for it. I was denied by the sheriff due to an SIS (suspended imposition of sentence) from almost 20 years ago.

Luckily I was able to get the 5 year Utah permit without any problems.

Now that my Utah permit is expiring, I thought I would just simply need to fill out a form to renew, but alas, Utah now requires for any out of state residents that want a Utah CCW to obtain a CCW in their home state as well!

So considering Missouri won't give me a CCW because of this ancient SIS I had when I was 17 (non-violent, non-drug, non-weapon class C felony), and Utah won't renew without me having a Missouri one, I figured my best solution was Florida's CCW, since they allow SIS as long as its been 3 years since completion of probation and you provide court documents that show you've successfully completed it. I guess all I have to do is get those court docs and send it along with my app...but....

Now after Googling a bit, I came across this; MISSOURI HOUSE BILL NO. 859; http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking...it/HB0859C.htm

It states somewhere in there that if you have a CCW from another state, that the sheriff must provide you with a CCW for Missouri if you pay for it. Is that correct? Such a strange coincidence that this bill JUST PASSED (I think) and it could resolve my issue with obtaining what I originally wanted; a Missouri CCW.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated since this is such a confusing matter.

Thanks!
 

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I can't be sure but I think there is an attorney somewhere in the St Louis area that is just waiting to hear from you. I'm pretty sure the only place you are going to get your answer is from some member of the legal profession.
 

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What's the subsection for the part you're taking about. I just went through it but I couldn't find anything talking about issuing a permit to those with out of state permits?
 

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hmm :confused: suspended sentence (or imposition there of) meaning convicted ?? of what?? Now bear with me here, not attacking OK. Lets look at it for a moment. I'm not an attorney, and do not live in your state, but may have some ideas to help. So something from 20 to 25 years ago that you had a suspended sentence for prevented you from getting a CCW. Apply for an in state permit. Likely you will be denied again, when / if you are get an attorney and get in front of a judge with your out of state permit to demonstrate you have been responsible with CCW for 5 years, and have no criminal activity for the many years since the incident. (or whatever other option is available to redress this grievance with the state) The judge cannot force the Sheriff to issue the permit, but he / she can expunge your record. God knows I am not the same person I was 20+ years ago, and I'm sure you have matured as well.

Best bet, contact an attorney first. Just my 2 cents
 

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I also don't see anything relating to other state permits. I think what's going on there is a change from DL endorsements to a separate CC permit.

The qualifications seem to be the same as usual, including:
(3) Has not pled guilty to or entered a plea of nolo contendere or been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year under the laws of any state or of the United States other than a crime classified as a misdemeanor under the laws of any state and punishable by a term of imprisonment of one year or less that does not involve an explosive weapon, firearm, firearm silencer or gas gun;
 

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Problem is when the Sheriff runs a Criminal background check even if your record is expunged it will show the arrest.
 

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Luckily I was able to get the 5 year Utah permit without any problems.

Now that my Utah permit is expiring, I thought I would just simply need to fill out a form to renew, but alas, Utah now requires for any out of state residents that want a Utah CCW to obtain a CCW in their home state as well!
Yup. That "minor" change was a nod to the anti-gunners, unfortunately.

Felonies are rough. I'd speak with a competent attorney on the question. Might well be no way around it, except to either (a) acquire a non-resident CHL from a state that doesn't have the same standard as your home state, or (b) move to a state without such standards.

Good luck, with your options. I wish you well.
 

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Many states issuing non resident permits are a joke. SOme just wants the money. They do not do a background check, do not run any type of criminal history check and will even issue to a non US citizen. Little by little, those states are either changing their issuing process or stopping the non resident license program.

Other states are not honoring many out of state non resident permits. Likely MO would not honor a non resident license held by a MO resident.

The best idea is to re apply for a MO permit and work to get the background cleared. If you were a minor at the time of the offense, it should not have any effect on the permit application.
 

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Welcome to the forum. Consult a lawyer there in MO, they're the ones who will have the answer you need.
 

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Many states issuing non resident permits are a joke. SOme just wants the money. They do not do a background check, do not run any type of criminal history check and will even issue to a non US citizen. Little by little, those states are either changing their issuing process or stopping the non resident license program.
That's a pretty big generalization there. Do you really think issuing NR permits is a "money maker"?
 

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I also don't see anything relating to other state permits. I think what's going on there is a change from DL endorsements to a separate CC permit.

The qualifications seem to be the same as usual, including:
Yeah, I'm wondering if he's talking about the section that deals with the conversion of the 'endorsement' to the 'permit' where it says basically you supply your valid endorsement to your local sheriff and they will issue you a 'permit' in its place. If that's what he's referring to I don't think it means what he believes it to mean. That section is referring to the Missouri endorsement, not just anyone's permit (at least that's how I read it). It does specify that you still have to prove that you've met the requirement for the Missouri permit, and that includes the training and stuff, so I would assume the BG portions would apply equally.

Regardless the bottom line for me is the same. There's no reason to do anything until (unless) this bill becomes law. Right now you would be wasting your time and money because it's not law yet. Secondly, assuming it does become law, he could then just ask his local sheriff if an out of state permit would work. If he declines, or won't accept it, then you'll have to contact an attorney if you want to challenge it legally.
 

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That's a pretty big generalization there. Do you really think issuing NR permits is a "money maker"?
Yees Sir, it is a money maker. Let's say FL issues a half million nr permits at $125 each. How many dollars did it just raise without having to do background checks or such?

The ask yourself why FL would issue a nr permit to those in CA so they can legally carry in AZ or some other state? Most nr permitees are not going to be using them in FL. I know several that got them because, a.) they could not qualify for one in LA. 2.) The process was faster than in LA. 3.) Fl permits allowed carry in states that LA did not. (that has since changed). None of these people I know had intentions of carrying in FL. FL wanted the money. It is easy money and some states are not recognizing FL permits due to the slack or lack of training, residency or such required of nr license holders.

I have since writing this reply learned that FL has averaged issuing over 25,000 non resident permits for the last 17 years. A person can see that the clerical work required does not cost $125 so the profit for the state is quite substantial.
 

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Other states are not honoring many out of state non resident permits. Likely MO would not honor a non resident license held by a MO resident.
And this is why you should speak to a lawyer rather than get advice on a forum, the above statement is inaccurate, MO does recognize the Florida permit even when held by a non resident of Florida.
 

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Yees Sir, it is a money maker. Let's say FL issues a half million nr permits at $125 each. How many dollars did it just raise without having to do background checks or such?
FL does indeed run a background check for CWFL issue.

"I know several that got them because, a.) they could not qualify for one in LA."
That's because FL is "shall issue," not "may issue at the whim of the local sheriff.

"2.) The process was faster than in LA."
Can't help it that CA takes forever. That's an administrative issue for CA.

"3.) Fl permits allowed carry in states that LA did not."
That's because FL reciprocates with states that honors its license. CA does not. Each state independently makes the decision on which states, permits it will honor. FL does not make that call. If you have an issue with state "X" honoring FL permits, then you have an issue with that state, not FL.

"None of these people I know had intentions of carrying in FL. FL wanted the money."
I don't think FL sought out those CA folks, in fact the opposite.

If you knew much about business expenses, you would know that salary, insurance, retirement/401 contributions, Social Security, and other associated expenses can and probably do exceed the $125 fee you quoted.

FL issues CWFLs to non-residents for use in FL. If other states decide to honor those licenses (or not), that is the call of those states. It is, after all, a FL CWFL, not a universal license.
 

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Yees Sir, it is a money maker. Let's say FL issues a half million nr permits at $125 each. How many dollars did it just raise without having to do background checks or such?

The ask yourself why FL would issue a nr permit to those in CA so they can legally carry in AZ or some other state? Most nr permitees are not going to be using them in FL. I know several that got them because, a.) they could not qualify for one in LA. 2.) The process was faster than in LA. 3.) Fl permits allowed carry in states that LA did not. (that has since changed). None of these people I know had intentions of carrying in FL. FL wanted the money. It is easy money and some states are not recognizing FL permits due to the slack or lack of training, residency or such required of nr license holders.

I have since writing this reply learned that FL has averaged issuing over 25,000 non resident permits for the last 17 years. A person can see that the clerical work required does not cost $125 so the profit for the state is quite substantial.
I can assure you fl does background checks, so does Az.
 

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Ok I'm just going to give you my personal experience. In 1989 I was arrested for burglary of a vehicle, 17-18 at the time. At the time it was a class C felony (since that time Texas has reduced it to a first class misdeamonor). The judge allowed for deferred adjudication and three years prob. Left for college in the fall. Served my three years without incident, no more troubles since then. Hadn't never bought a gun or nothing until this year so never put the ncis background to the test. At the first of the year, I took the Utah cfp (I live in Utah now) for free and decided my New Years resolution would be cfp/ccw in enough states that I wouldn't have to disarm myself when driving home to Texas. Ok, so I bought my beloved Beretta Nano Feb. 1: the instant background check got kicked into "research" and took a week but finally went through. I took this as a good sign. Then I applied for my Utah cfp: I included a well-written letter explaining the charges and my behavior since then. 4 mos. later my Utah cfp appeared in the mail: I don't know if that's the normal processing time or if the cfp got kicked into research as well with Utah BCI contacting the da's office in the county were the charges were filed. I assume a bit of both. I'm currently working on my Arizona ccw and included the same letter. When I apply for my Nevada ccw in October, I'll include the same letter.

So I had a class C misdemeanor on my record. Never spent the money to have it expunged. Like you this charge was not associated with drugs or violence. I checked to box for deferred adjudication. I included a great letter. I got my cfp. Those steps might work for you. I can draft a letter for you for a nominal fee paid via PayPal ��.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That's actually not accurate. Missouri does honor Utah and Florida permits from Missouri residents with those licenses. Thanks for your help!
 

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For those thinking FL does background checks on apps for NR permits, best think again.

There are several states that no longer honor FL NR permits becuase of the way they pass them out. One man in SHreveport LA had a felony armed robbery in his past. He was issued a NR permit. Many non US citizens have gotten permits from FL. I bet those cannot buy a gun in the US but they get a NR FL permit.

Now I can assure you, the cost of running the dept that issues the permits has a fixed operations cost. State permits help defray those costs. The State funds the dept with so much money and the income from the permits likely go into a general fund. THen getting an extra million a yr off permits will sure make the dept profitable.

As to my understanding how to operate a business, please be aware I have three college degrees, one of which is a MBA from Baylor. In addition to being a consulant to several law enforcement agencies, I own a consulting company that has been in existence since 1989 that has several people on the payroll, a large office and many other things like malpractice insurance and lots more. I know about business operations.

I also think is owed a debt of gratitude from every permit holder in the US. They led the way in "shall" issue permits. Other states copied FL in the language of the law. FL is about the most notable for issuing NR permits. From what other states and I have found, the NR permits are virtually cookie stamped. Like it or not, people get FL permits when they cannot get them from their own state. I run across them fairly often. A person with a DUI will not get a permit in LA but can from FL. Yet LA got around that by not honoring NR FL permits for LA residents.
 

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Many non US citizens have gotten permits from FL. I bet those cannot buy a gun in the US but they get a NR FL permit.
I'm not a Citizen, I have a Florida permit, Missouri recognizes my right to carry on that permit. I can also legally buy a gun, and have done several times. Most states that issue concealed carry permits will allow legally resident non-citizens to have a permit, unfortunately Missouri is not one of those.
 

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You really need to talk to a attorney that is also licensed in Federal Court due to the original Class "C" Felony.
 
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