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All good points. Still doing my research. Went to the LGS and looked a lowers. Then talked to an unusually nice, well informed young guy there. We talked through what I was thinking and he showed me several of their AR. The first I can't remember the name of. Starts with a "T", used to just make parts but now making complete rifles. This one was $750. Then he put a BCM gun in my hand. To the uninformed, they didn't feel that much different. Slightly better trigger, better charging handle, better pistol grip and stock. All easily changed later.

Then he handed me an LWRC gun. Wow. So tight between the upper and lower, great fitting rail, comes with rail guards, a hand stop, fluted barrel, and acceptable furniture. For a guy like me it needs optics and sights and I'm probably done. $1,450.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
All good points. Still doing my research. Went to the LGS and looked a lowers. Then talked to an unusually nice, well informed young guy there. We talked through what I was thinking and he showed me several of their AR. The first I can't remember the name of. Starts with a "T", used to just make parts but now making complete rifles. This one was $750. Then he put a BCM gun in my hand. To the uninformed, they didn't feel that much different. Slightly better trigger, better charging handle, better pistol grip and stock. All easily changed later.

Then he handed me an LWRC gun. Wow. So tight between the upper and lower, great fitting rail, comes with rail guards, a hand stop, fluted barrel, and acceptable furniture. For a guy like me it needs optics and sights and I'm probably done. $1,450.
Troy?
 

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I don't want to sound as if I am knocking you in any way, but, I do not personally understand spending almost $1500 on a first AR-15 platform. I mean, I love quality guns myself. I love the feel and look of highest quality, but, I will tell you from experience that you would need to really really need a high quality rifle to justify that kind of spending until you figure out exactly what you will use a rifle for.

I built my first AR-15 and had over $1600 in it. Almost never used it and sold it at a huge loss.

Make sure you want one and will use it enough to justify the cost. I built my last two rifles and went a completely different direction and both in different calibers. My 5.56 rifle is a used Daniel Defense DDM4-V3 upper mated to an Anderson lower with BCM PCT trigger kit. I got the DD upper for $499 which included a $200 NiB coated bolt group. Bargains can be found.

I still don't use them as much as I'd like but I don't have as much sunk into them either.

A S&W M&P Sporter 5.56 for under $600 is a great starter rifle. Anderson makes complete rifles at a good price. BCM is my choice of accessories and Daniel Defense is my favorite brand but they get pricey.
 

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That's it. Thoughts?

Appreciate your comments Tally, but all things are relative. My $1,500 may not be your $1,500. If I decide to sell a complete, not home built rifle because I don't like it, I imagine the DD or LWRC will lose about the same nominal value as the Troy. Say $1,200 for the DD, and $450-500 for the Troy.

I am still debating my need/want for an AR, but I decide to get one I will likely jump in with both feet. I may not shoot it a lot, but will want to know that if I need it, it will work.
 

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I currently have 2 ARs (2.5 IF you count a S&W M&P15-22) both Colts, an older LE6920 and a newer AR6951 in 9mm.

The LE6920 is set up for HD and after having used it for years in classes and an occasional match, I'm pretty happy with it as is. The only mods I've down are Magpul furniture, and a Geissele SSA-E trigger. It has two optics; an old Trijicon Tri-Power (Larue QD mount) which it wear in its DD role and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4X (American Defense recon QD mount) for GP and hunting coyotes.

Lately we've been doing more coyote hunting, which here in Eastern KS is normally a 20-150 yd proposition, with a rare long shot. A good part of the time we're carrying 2 guns, shotgun and an AR. Rifle on bipod or tripod, shotgun in lap while calling.

I'm now thinking of putting together a coyote AR (or at least an upper initially) over the course of this year. Right now I'm researching barrels. My thoughts are:

16" length
1-8 twist
Wylde Chamber
Light to hybrid taper (we hike more than shoot)

I'm looking specifically at Criterion and White Oak. Thoughts??????

Thanks,

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #46
That's it. Thoughts?

Appreciate your comments Tally, but all things are relative. My $1,500 may not be your $1,500. If I decide to sell a complete, not home built rifle because I don't like it, I imagine the DD or LWRC will lose about the same nominal value as the Troy. Say $1,200 for the DD, and $450-500 for the Troy.

I am still debating my need/want for an AR, but I decide to get one I will likely jump in with both feet. I may not shoot it a lot, but will want to know that if I need it, it will work.
Troy has been around for some time, and the rifles appear to have some very attractive features for the price points.

I currently have 2 ARs (2.5 IF you count a S&W M&P15-22) both Colts, an older LE6920 and a newer AR6951 in 9mm.

The LE6920 is set up for HD and after having used it for years in classes and an occasional match, I'm pretty happy with it as is. The only mods I've down are Magpul furniture, and a Geissele SSA-E trigger. It has two optics; an old Trijicon Tri-Power (Larue QD mount) which it wear in its DD role and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4X (American Defense recon QD mount) for GP and hunting coyotes.

Lately we've been doing more coyote hunting, which here in Eastern KS is normally a 20-150 yd proposition, with a rare long shot. A good part of the time we're carrying 2 guns, shotgun and an AR. Rifle on bipod or tripod, shotgun in lap while calling.

I'm now thinking of putting together a coyote AR (or at least an upper initially) over the course of this year. Right now I'm researching barrels. My thoughts are:

16" length
1-8 twist
Wylde Chamber
Light to hybrid taper (we hike more than shoot)

I'm looking specifically at Criterion and White Oak. Thoughts??????

Thanks,

Chuck
I am currently waiting on delivery of a WOA SPR upper, which they are apparently waiting on delivery of handguards from ALG to complete. Granted, my order was for an 18" barrel vs. the 16" you are wanting. I was looking specifically at free floated, 18" uppers with 1:8 twists and Wylde chambers, and I felt like they gave me the best bang for my buck. Once it gets in, I'll let you know what I think of it. They obviously have built their reputation on making accurate rifles, so I'm hopeful this one will live up to my expectations.

When I was shopping around, I was also looking at their 3-gun upper, and was told the below:

The primary differences between the 3-gun and the SPR is barrel profile and gas system. The gas system on the 3-gun is 1-inch shorter than rifle length, in addition rather than being a straight contour under the handguard the 3-gun barrel diameter is narrower towards the gas block and heavier towards the shooter.
Since I will probably be running a suppressor on it at some point, I wanted the straight contour barrel. I also wasn't sure about the proprietary length gas system.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Not currently, was looking more towards saving some wear and tear and reduced recoil for an occasional 3-gun match. From what I've read they allow some 'tuningh" to your loads that provide both, and some reduction in fouling.

Chuck
They can, but those benefits come at a cost, which is potentially reliability. If you aren't running a suppressor, and are worried that your gun is over-gassed, i would personally change buffer weights before putting on an adjustable gas block.

FWIW in terms of 3-gun: I definitely fall into the "amateur" category of the sport, but usually try to shoot 1 match a month. There are muzzle breaks out there that will not have the potential to effect the function of the gun, but do a great job at reducing recoil for really tight double taps. The Surefire Procomp comes to mind as a "best buy" at around $60. The Lantac Dragon is great too, but more expensive than the surefire.

Granted, I ran an A2 birdcage for most of last year, and don't recall dropping many rifle shots. My opportunities to decrease time generally come from elsewhere (specifically shotgun loading).
 

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3. And of course a Colt Canda AR15 cause how often do you see made in Canada on a AR ( and yes these are out there and they are not NFA just were some weird thing Colt did )
Colt Defense bought Diemaco in May of 2005.
They had produced their AR rifles (called C7 by them) under license from Colt.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
buckeye .45,

Excellent and timely!!

Looking forward to your review.

Chuck
It arrived today Chuck, I'll try to get out sometime in the next few weeks to see how it does.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
1st impressions?? Pictures??

Standing by patiently for your review, but based on the reviews I've read I suspect wit will be positive...

Chuck
I'll try to get some pictures shortly. I like the balance on the upper, although it is slightly more front end heavy than my 14.5" barrel (naturally). This one is obviously build for precision shooting, as opposed to something like HD use.

Build so far:

Spikes "Punisher" lower
BCM LPK/gunfighter grip
Geissele G2S-E 2 stage enhanced trigger
Luth AR MBA stock
WOA SPR upper, rifle length gas system, 18" SS barrel, 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber. WOA BCG & CH
Vortex 2.5-10x HS-LR FFP scope in a Burris PEPR mount.

Only things left to do are add an extended charging handle, and swap out the muzzle device for something other than an A2 birdcage. And shoot it obviously, which will probably happen before the other changes are made.
 

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I'll try to get some pictures shortly. I like the balance on the upper, although it is slightly more front end heavy than my 14.5" barrel (naturally). This one is obviously build for precision shooting, as opposed to something like HD use.

Build so far:

Spikes "Punisher" lower
BCM LPK/gunfighter grip
Geissele G2S-E 2 stage enhanced trigger
Luth AR MBA stock
WOA SPR upper, rifle length gas system, 18" SS barrel, 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber. WOA BCG & CH
Vortex 2.5-10x HS-LR FFP scope in a Burris PEPR mount.

Only things left to do are add an extended charging handle, and swap out the muzzle device for something other than an A2 birdcage. And shoot it obviously, which will probably happen before the other changes are made.
Sounds like a hell of a gun!!

I've got a Geissele G2S-E in my Colt, it is an awesome trigger! Going to put one in my next rifle and I'm seriously thinking of adding one to my 9mm carbine, just to maintain consistency.

Co0ngrats!

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Took the WOA build out today, and put 40 rounds down range after finishing a 3 gun match today.

If you are looking for something with precision being a primary consideration, I think it WOA should be close to the top of the list. Even with cheap 55 gr bulk ammo that I shoot in 3-gun (today was American Eagle), it was stacking rounds up on the target.

I need to really run it through its paces, and get more rounds down the pipe, but initial impressions are extremely positive.
 
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