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Why is the consensus that the long and heavy D/A trigger on pistols and revolvers are a needed safety feature? I hear people say it all the time, but the very same people own Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, Rugers, etc that have a lighter and sorter triggers. If millions of Americans have successfully carried striker fired handguns without safeties for decades, why do gun owns and gun manufacturers feel that if there is a hammer instead of a striker, the trigger should be long and heavy?

I mean, what's the difference? Why is a revolver or D/A pistol with a 5-7lb trigger anymore dangerous than a Glock or the like? What am I missing? If the owner keeps the gun holstered, and his/her finger off the trigger, then what's the problem?
 

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Well for one thing, there's been several studies conducted that confirm that even with training, police under stress often end up with their fingers on their triggers without being conscious of it:

In his first study, 33 male and 13 female officers of different ranks and years of service, were sent into a room to arrest a "suspect" and to "act in a way
they thought appropriate" while doing so. The officers were armed with a SIG-Sauer P226 that was rigged with force sensors on the trigger and grip. All
the officers were instructed that if they drew the gun during the exercise, they were to keep their finger off the trigger unless they had made the decision to
shoot, per their training and department regs.

As the role-play evolved, 34 of the 46 officers drew the gun and one officer actually fired, intentionally. Of the 33 others who drew, all insisted that they had followed
instructions to keep their finger outside the trigger guard, because they'd not made a decision to shoot.

The sensors told a different tale.

Seven of the 33--more than 20 per cent--had in fact touched the trigger hard enough to activate the sensor. Even the officer who eventually fired his
weapon "not only touched the trigger twice before actually firing and once again afterwards, but also had his finger on it long before actually firing," Heim
notes. Yet he too maintained he'd kept his finger well clear of the trigger until the very split-second before he fired
https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/94371-Can-you-really-prevent-unintentional-discharges/

here's another, but you have to download the PDF: http://www.shastadefense.com/1911streetsafe.pdf

That indicate that regardless of training and having "keep your finger off the trigger" ingrained, it may still be a subconscious response due to stress. In this article the results were 632 out of 674 (94%) officers tested during FATs training periodically placed their fingers inside the trigger guard, while having no intention of shooting.

I'm a died in the wool striker fired guy, was a big 1911 guy (cocked & locked) before moving to polymer due to weight/capacity. I like a striker trigger that has some pre-travel for this reason. I’ve also been working with the HK LEM, which just might be “THE” option for someone concerned with this because the trigger does have some take-up before the break that’s hard to ignore, but also provides for a good trigger accuracy wise. I do prefer the LEM to a straight DA/SA or normal DAO trigger. Also being a hammer fired gun, you can ride your thumb on the “bobbed” hammer while holstering, which for some is another concern for striker fired pistols.

Although most SA pistols; 1911s for example have a safety, since I was taught to swipe it off as part of my draw stroke (2nd Step of 4 count) I can see how someone would be concerned with a SA pistol also.

Chuck
 

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What he said^^^ PLUS pocket carry of a J frame sized revolver to help with accidental discharge
Yep. I'd be willing to wager the vast majority of NDs come from weapons with lighter trigger pulls. Plus, it's just not a one-size-fits-all kinda world.
 

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Manufacturers don't like being sued. Since they can sell a firearm with long DA pull ( aka: a safety feature) they will do so. In wheel guns it takes far more effort during manufacture to produce a lighter/shorter trigger pull that will also be safe enough for the general population. Remember, most firearms are produced to be safe with the average buyer. ND are caused by negligent owners, not light triggers.
 

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A Glock has several internal safeties. A kel-tec p-11, for example, only has one safety- it's 8lb 3/4" trigger pull.
 

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I've wondered why Sig can produce the super smooth and not too heavy DAO trigger on the P250, but not apply the same characteristics to the rest of their DA/SA or DAK triggers. The DAK has a comparable first pull, but the second on the shorter reset is heavier. Like a DA/SA but backwards and with a longer reset.
 

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I just acquired my first DA/SA semi auto. I like the idea of that heavy pull for three reasons. One I accept - although try to train against - that my finger may find it's way inside the trigger guard if under stress. I don't want to have to remember to swipe a safety off if under stress if there is an acceptable alternative which DA/SA is to me. If I'm calm and collected enough I can always turn that DA pull into a SA by simply cocking the hammer which is not all that different from swiping a safety. This my nightstand gun and I do train for the DA pull as well as the SA, I just like the over all package in terms of safety/usability under stress. But admittedly I'm new to DA/SA but that was my rational and so far I'm happy.
 

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The way I see it.

On a short trigger like on a single action the decision to fire is final.

On a long trigger like on a DA you get the implication that your decision to fire is about to be final.

I realized that on my Sig P250.
 

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Several good points made about DA and DA/SA triggers above. I like my Glocks, but feel more comfortable with a DA trigger in my pocket or as a bedside gun. I'd prefer to have a nice long revolver trigger for cases when I still may be half asleep.
 

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Why is the consensus that the long and heavy D/A trigger on pistols and revolvers are a needed safety feature? I hear people say it all the time, but the very same people own Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, Rugers, etc that have a lighter and sorter triggers. If millions of Americans have successfully carried striker fired handguns without safeties for decades, why do gun owns and gun manufacturers feel that if there is a hammer instead of a striker, the trigger should be long and heavy?

I mean, what's the difference? Why is a revolver or D/A pistol with a 5-7lb trigger anymore dangerous than a Glock or the like? What am I missing? If the owner keeps the gun holstered, and his/her finger off the trigger, then what's the problem?
For me it isn't so much about the pull weight, or trigger travel... but rather about the hammer that typically comes with the DA. On my Sigs and CZs, and HKs, I can rest my thumb on the hammer while I reholster. This does 2 things:
1. I immediately know if something has snagged the trigger while reholstering as i feel the hammer movement in my thumb.
2. My thumb on the hammer prevents all trigger movement... making it impossible for the gun to fire even with pretty heavy tugging on the trigger.

I've read too many reports of police officers and citizens having faulty holsters, shirt tails, drawstrings and other foreign objects get into a trigger guard. Just my personal preference.

I get the ease-of-use of not having a safety switch to fiddle with, whole still enjoying an extra degree of safety.
 

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If you & I were on a SWAT Team, we were breaching the front door of a dangerous house and entering with our team single file. The first guys in have cleared the living room with you & I moving further down the hall to clear the bedrooms. You are in front of me. I have a 1911 derivative at high-ready, safety off, 4 lb. trigger. We both move past a hallway linen closet on our right and a prep burst the door open. The doorknob hits the outside of my right elbow, at full force, right ON the "funny bone". My hand involuntarily twitches and contracts. BOOM! You just got shot.

The chances of the AD/ND lessen if I have a longer, heavier pull. Now I realize my thumb safety should NOT have been OFF. But things do get squirrelly...sometimes.
 

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Why is the consensus that the long and heavy D/A trigger on pistols and revolvers are a needed safety feature?
Helps reduce the likelihood that a snag of clothing, or snag of the holster's sweat shield, or momentary finger insertion into the trigger guard will result in sufficient trigger pressure to fire the gun. Helps reduce the risk of an unintentional firing, when one's finger is on the trigger and sights are on the target but one isn't yet fully committed to actually firing at that moment.

Not to say that it sidesteps those risks. But the fact is that the average person when faced with a ~4lb trigger pull versus a ~8-10lb trigger pull will find it much easier to fire the 4lb one. Hard to say whether the average person will or won't find it more difficult, per se, in a stressful/dire situation in which sensory perception skews based on the chemical dump and "tunnel" vision/focus.

Myself, I prefer DA/SA for this basic reason of improving the odds via reducing the risk, and for providing just that little bit more distance between me and false claims of "hair trigger" in a situation where I'm forced to fire. Will it actually make a difference, when it comes down to it? Who can say? Can't hurt, aside from a slight first-shot difference in accuracy and strike time. Which can largely be mitigated through training anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What do you all edc everyday? How often have you edc'd a striker fired gun, and if you have, why if you see a 5-6 or so lb trigger as more of a risk?
 

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I go back and forth on this one, so I've got no definitive answers. I like the slight safety edge that the longer, heavier first DA pull possibly provides. And, being able to thumb the hammer when reholstering is very comforting. But the thing about the DA/SA system that gives me pause personally is the second SA shot -- especially on a gun like my p226 Legion with the SRT. Man, it would seem that the likelihood of firing a second shot unintentionally under stress would be pretty strong. Under just the right circumstances, that could be very bad...

So I don't know. I see advantages and disadvantages either way. Ask me tomorrow, and I might have a different feeling. :smile: It's probably just a matter of picking a system that works best for you, then being as familiar as you can with the possible disadvantages, and train, train, train.
 

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What do you all edc everyday? How often have you edc'd a striker fired gun, and if you have, why if you see a 5-6 or so lb trigger as more of a risk?
I have DA/SA CZ's, a striker fire Shield, a DAO Taurus TCP and the wife's SA Sig P238. I usually carry the Shield or the TCP because I like a CONSISTENT trigger pull from first to last shot and don't want to mess with a safety. Doesn't really matter to me how many lbs. The Shield is 6.25lbs and the TCP, while only 4 lbs (yep, I measured it) is long and predictable. Only times I have ever had a "Surprise" fire in my Tactical Shooting Class was going from DA to SA action on my CZ's in a drill.
 

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I switch between a Glock 30 and a S&W 6906 regularly without issue. I feel too much is made of trigger types.
 
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What do you all edc everyday? How often have you edc'd a striker fired gun, and if you have, why if you see a 5-6 or so lb trigger as more of a risk?
My preference is for a ~7-8lb initial trigger pull, or greater, on DA, on a DA/SA defensive sidearm. Mostly for general utility and safety, given that's the trigger pull is what my first sidearm had. But then, I vastly prefer no manual thumb safety, too. Partly for that reason, I'm generally unwilling to have a sidearm where the first pull weight is below 7-8lbs.

Were I to change over to SAO with manual thumb safety, I'd learn that system and likely be fully comfortable with a ~4lb trigger pull along with the safety that's operated with every draw (ie, with 1911's).

For myself, I don't much notice a sweet trigger, if it happens to be 8lbs or so. Though, I sure do dislike a crappy trigger, no matter what the pull weight. My solution has always been: a trigger job, or an out-of-the-box sweet trigger, but with sufficiently heavy trigger pull to sooth my conscience and concerns over initial legal risks of the initial pull weight.
 

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It's mostly about different mechanisms. A trigger that has to fully cock and release a hammer is always going to be relatively long and heavy, compared to a trigger that just has to move a pre-cocked striker back a little further (unless the striker trigger is modified to get the same effect, as by a heavier spring).
 
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Here is a good argument for DA/SA. But it probably won't change anyone's mind. There is a lot of confirmation bias on this topic. That means if you already believe in DA/SA, you will find it credible. If you don't, you won't.

 
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