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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Saturday at lunch I took my daughters soccer team to CiCis for pizza,as we were mustering up to leave the coach took 2 of the girls to the bathroom and the rest of us gathered outside on the sidewalk I was getting them in rank and file of 3 by 4(easier for me to count with a glance) a man walked to the other side of the group and picked up a little girl and turned to walk off!
The rest of the girls screamed and went to STRANGERDANGER Drill,they all go back to back,lock arms,scream and kick out with cleats.
I took a few quick steps and caught up with the guy and laid my SlapJack on the side of his head with all of my 375 pounds in the blow,grabbed the little girl before he hit the ground.
At this time the coach comes out with the last two girls sees the other girls in SD mode and draws her pistol,I didnt even know she was a toter.She goes to cover the guy as I get the girls in the van.

The coach then says we might have a problem,the downed man is the daddy of the girl he picked up(the whole dual custody thing).

The only reasons I didnt shoot were I was standing over 12 3-4 year old girls.
BG was holding the girl up high on his hip.

After everything is sorted out with cops,paramedics,custody mom,the guy thanks me for keeping his kid safe.
The cops checked IDs and permits but didnt ask us to disarm.
Would you done diff?
 

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Sounds like it ended well for everybody. Especially if he thanked you later.

His actions were certainly suspect, you don't hold a child on your hip unless you're in a hurry. Normal parent carry is in your arms with them hugging your neck.

The children also reacted like they didn't know him. I would have done the same as you.
 

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You blindsided a guy upside the head with a SlapJack putting him on the ground and he thanks you for keeping his kid safe? WTH
 

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i think given the situation you did what you had to do to protect the girl. the only person that did wrong in this whole situation is the father of the girl.

Why the heck wouldn't he say this is my daughter or anything like that, instead he just picks her up and acts like he's gonna walk off with her? This guy sounds like a complete IDIOT.

Either way I think you and the coach did a great job, the only one who was wrong was the father.

+1 on protecting your team/girls! Great Job.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You blindsided a guy upside the head with a SlapJack putting him on the ground and he thanks you for keeping his kid safe? WTH
yep, I didnt have a clue who he was.He told us later he realized it looked bad and was greatful people like us were looking out for the kids.
 

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I think I would have challenged him verbally before jumping immediately to using potentially lethal force on an unarmed man.

If he had decided to press charges, this might well have turned out very differently for you. Had you decided to shoot (as you say you would have but for the kids in the way), I suspect you'd be a guest of the state right now (and probably for many years to come.)

Matt
 

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I think I would have challenged him verbally before jumping immediately to using potentially lethal force on an unarmed man.

If he had decided to press charges, this might well have turned out very differently for you. Had you decided to shoot (as you say you would have but for the kids in the way), I suspect you'd be a guest of the state right now (and probably for many years to come.)

Matt
Agreed, for just this reason (downed man is the daddy of the girl he picked up(the whole dual custody thing).

Glad it worked out okay, and I can't say I'd handled any better. Strong possibility once the guy was confronted verbally, the conversation wouldn't have gone much better and ended up with a similar result, but with a struggle too.
 

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I think I would have challenged him verbally before jumping immediately to using potentially lethal force on an unarmed man.

If he had decided to press charges, this might well have turned out very differently for you. Had you decided to shoot (as you say you would have but for the kids in the way), I suspect you'd be a guest of the state right now (and probably for many years to come.)

Matt
Agreed. A blow to the head with an object is considered lethal force. Considering the man was unarmed, and that the OP didn't even issue a verbal challenge/command, the OP is extremely lucky not to be sued or even have assault charges against him.

Was the little girl screaming? If it was her Dad, I wouldn't think so. Sure, that Dad could have told the OP that he was picking her up, but a lot of people are in a hurry and don't think to do that. The OP states that the ONLY reason he didn't shoot was because of potential collateral damage. Imagine if the OP actually did shoot, killing an unarmed man. Can you see the headlines in the media from that?

Ex:

"Trigger Happy CCWer shoots unarmed father picking up his child"

This is why you don't act or attempt to shoot or draw without first finding out what the situation is. Getting struck with a blunt object to the head can cause a subdural hematoma. I know, I suffered a blow to the head in the police academy and the blood clot in my brain didn't maifest itself until 5 weeks later.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think I would have challenged him verbally before jumping immediately to using potentially lethal force on an unarmed man.

If he had decided to press charges, this might well have turned out very differently for you. Had you decided to shoot (as you say you would have but for the kids in the way), I suspect you'd be a guest of the state right now (and probably for many years to come.)

Matt
My first thought was to stop a percieved molestation or worse...I had no intention of striking up a conversation with a alledged pervert.
The little girl was making noise but after a day of listening to dozens of kids at full volume I couldnt tell the diff in the type of squeals or screams.
 

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North Carolina law states the use of deadly force is allowed when faced with imminent threat of death, serious injury or sexual assault.

North Carolina law does not require a warning prior to the use of deadly force. It's recommended but not required.

The girl was in the care and custody of the original poster.

The father of the girl taken didn't inform any of the people in charge of the children that he was taking the child. If he had been a regular at picking up his daughter then chances are the OP would have recognized him and no problem would have arose.

What if the father had been denied any parental contact by the courts?

When a child is removed from a supervised activity without notifying the people in charge it is cause for alarm and action.

Just because the child may have not been alarmed by who picked her up, it doesn't mean that the person doesn't have bad intentions. Could be a relative or friend of the family that is a pedophile.

I'd be thankful for the OP looking out for my kids.
 

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If that would have happened here in Texas you would be charged with aggravated assault which is a felony. If I was the officer that rolled up on this situation I would have had to arrest and charge you with Assault. You were armed you should have confronted the guy first you cant just go around hitting people with a blackjack. Seems kind of reckless and irresponsible to me. Just my two cents.
 

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As a parent of young kids, it sounds clean to me. When it comes to pre-schoolers I say better safe than sorry.

It's a tough call but, I think I could rather live with the thought of being wrong, than having a child be abducted on my watch.
 

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He might be thanking you now, just wait till he talks to his lawyer.
 

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IronMike,
Good for you for protecting the little ones. I bet he won't be grabbing his or any one else's kid without letting those in charge know first. Any good parent want's to know who his/her kids are being chaperoned by. Too bad this guy found out the hard way. I bet he was glad he only got a bump on the head when he saw the coach's gun.
 

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wow

lucky for everyone involved in this
 

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The way I understand the laws here in Florida, you had temporary custody of the children and believed him to be about to commit a forcible felony (at the very least kidnapping) without informing you who he was. I believe it would have been justified if you had gone so far as to shoot here (assuming a clean FOF.)
 

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You don't just pick a kid up and walk off. Say hello to the coach, "how's it going?" Blah blah blah smalltalk.

That said, I might have yelled at him and asked him who he was.
 

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You should have found out what was going on before you hit the guy. It's not like you had to act immediately. I think that it was a bad move. It's surprising that you weren't arrested . You are very lucky that it didn't turn out different.
 

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You blindsided a guy upside the head with a SlapJack putting him on the ground and he thanks you for keeping his kid safe? WTH
You read my mind.

Would you done diff?
I'd like to think so.

Anything wrong with saying STOP! in a command voice? Then asking what the heck is going on? You got lucky with the cops, but that doesn't mean it won't be investigated by detectives and charges pursued by the local prosecuting attorney.

Then, if the guy is smart, he'll go to the hospital for being struck about the cranium and suffer grievious bodily harm and loss of abilities and thus take you to civil court.

Granted, I wasn't there, but how was the kid he was taking away, his daughter in fact, acting? Was she kicking and screaming, or going along happily and looking forward to that iced cream cone Daddy promised her?

In case nobody ever told you, to strike the head with a sap is to use lethal force. It might've been easier to just shoot the guy. At least that way you would know you made a huge mistake. I understand your intentions, and I do commend them. The thing is, you did use lethal force without knowing the situation and while I am not a lawyer, I do have a pretty good idea of what the Use of Force Model looks like.

Yes, the other children went into "Stranger Danger" mode. Great, that gives you an idea of what may be going on. You still have an obligation to KNOW what is going on. Like I said, any reason you couldn't use a Command Voice and tell the guy to "STOP!"?

If no criminal or civil charges arise from this, consider yourself very lucky and go buy a lottery ticket.

Biker
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Biker,
As always i like your insight,I may have yelled I cant recall... the coach says i did,but I just have to chalk it up to "the fog of war" as Von Clauswitz put it.I do remember the dad starting to hurry when he saw me starting my rush,but there was also an urgency to get back to my other charges in case this was a diversion.I just dont think there was time for a chat.
 
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