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Well the TSA just changed their mind on allowing small pocket knives on airplanes . So that TSA approved knife you just purchased just became your newest paper weight :hand1:

This just keeps getting better . Maybe a reason I haven't flown in years ! My freakin shoes, my belt, my phone, my notebook, 3 Oz of this, that, just knee jerk as usual .:aargh4:

I have just one thing more to say .....El Al Airlines. They profile people !
 

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Yeah, flying is a PITA, but if you want to get from coast to coast in 5 hours it's what ya got to do.
 

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I used to travel quite a bit for work. Thankfully not so much any more. I used to enjoy it but now prefer to drive if possible just to avoid the TSA stupidity. I was closer than most to the events on 9/11 and so accepted a lot of what went on in the aftermath, thinking a lot of it was temporary. Now I'm convinced they should turn over security to the airlines, who actually have a stake in making sure their assets stay safe.

I was pretty much okay with everything until late 2010 when they when to the full body grope in advance of the porn-o-scan machines. I have metal in my body that usually sets of metal detectors, so I'd become accustomed to informing the TSA screener ahead of time and they would pull me aside and wave me down with the wand. With the policy change in 2010, any beep from the detector (no scanner was available my first time through) mean a full body pat down. I'm no prude and don't mind the contact, but it was just the sheer invasion of personal space and level of search just to travel back home from a business meeting that set my teeth on edge.

Most people on this board accept the notion that there is risk in the world and we make decisions every day to either accept some level of risk (e.g. driving to work), or seek ways to avoid risk (e.g. stay out of the bad part of town at night), or mitigate risk (concealed carry). Unfortunately , it seems the Feds, via DHS and the TSA, have embarked on a policy to avoid risk at all costs. Much of that cost is to our civil liberties and, more and more, our personal dignity.

The image of grown men, just normal law abiding citizens going about their business, waddling through the checkpoint in stocking feet, holding up their pants with one hand and shoes and belt in the other, after getting their crotch groped by some useless TSA slug makes me mourn for my country.
 

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The image of grown men, just normal law abiding citizens going about their business, waddling through the checkpoint in stocking feet, holding up their pants with one hand and shoes and belt in the other, after getting their crotch groped by some useless TSA slug makes me mourn for my country.
I hate the invasion of privacy too and most of it is ridiculous and over the top.

That said, I don't have a problem with the "no pocket knife" rule because what's the difference between that and a box cutter?
If a Mohammad Atta wannabe and several "students" gets on board with pocket knives and slits a flight attendants throat...well, I don't want to be on that flight.

I agree that we should turn security over to the airlines and arm the pilots. That would probably fix 99.9% of the problems.
Start profiling like Israel does and that would go up to 100%.
 

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History has proven that weather, mechanical issues, and pilot error has been far more deadly to the flying public than terrorists. Given that I don't sit up front, no longer am responsible for the maintenance and the weather is . . . well, the weather, those I have no control over. But "realistic" efforts to ensure my safety from other passengers are appreciated, much as I hate all but stripping to get on board.
 

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meh, i figured it was going to happen. you an get a knife just as sharp as a box cutter and its a bigger blade. figured this wasnt gonna fly, no pun intended.
 

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The wife and I only travel for vacation reasons. We started driving every where we go about 6 years ago. Two to four thousand mile driving trips have really become a lot of fun. We get to see a lot of this country and eat at places we would have never thought of. Last fall we spent five days driving around Michigan, before that it was Colorado. They can keep the airplanes and the TSA, I'm taking the backroads.
 

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"and slits a flight attendants throat...well, I don't want to be on that flight."

If I was a flight attendant that just got my throat slit I sure would want a highly qualified nurse named Jeanlouise on that flight. :yup:
 

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I hate the invasion of privacy too and most of it is ridiculous and over the top.

That said, I don't have a problem with the "no pocket knife" rule because what's the difference between that and a box cutter?
If a Mohammad Atta wannabe and several "students" gets on board with pocket knives and slits a flight attendants throat...well, I don't want to be on that flight.

I agree that we should turn security over to the airlines and arm the pilots. That would probably fix 99.9% of the problems.
Start profiling like Israel does and that would go up to 100%.
Any one who really wants to get a blade on board an aircraft would have little problem doing it. It could easily be fabricated and integrated into any number of otherwise legal components. All the "no knife" rule does is catch people with no bad intent who either didn't know or forgot to remove it before going to the airport. It's a policy that does nothing to protect against a real threat. It's a feel good policy that has nothing to do with preventing terrorism.
 

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All anyone has to do to slit someones throat is sharpen the edge of a credit card slightly. Box cutters and pocket knives are no greater threat to anyone. The only reason they were effective previously was because everyone thought they were dealing with a simple hijacking and that compliance would lead to inconvenience not mass destruction. I should think people are better informed now and would fail to acquiesce against such minor weapons. Personally I think we ignore the most effective deterrent, which is profiling. Putting political correctness ahead of safety is something I do have a problem with.
 

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Airlines running their own security?

Trust me, you do NOT want the airlines to be responsible for their own security. I suppose most people would call it 'fine print' but when you purchase a ticket you agree to a set of rules known as "contract of carriage". Anyone who has been involuntarily denied boarding can tell you that it does exist, and can be a bear to deal with. Basically the contract of carriage lays out their responsibilities to you, and your responsibilities as a passenger. Each airline has a different set of rules they play by in said contract. Now, put the airlines in charge of security (as opposed to the federal governmental guidelines, not all security checkpoints are TSA) and you wanna talk about a traveling/standardization nightmare??? Imagine you show up for a flight operated by brand X, the flight cancels and you now have to go to brand Y to get close to where you were trying to go. What was OK on brand X is not allowed by brand Y, not to mention you must now be re-screened. It is essentially: you don't agree to our rules? Don't ride on our airplanes. Flying is NOT a right, just look at the national do not fly list. Get on that list, good luck getting on a commercial airliner.
No, airlines have a hard enough time just trying to (unsuccessfully for most) stay out of bankruptcy, much less try to run their own security for the millions of passengers that are flown via the airlines a day.

P.S. You can thank the flight attendants unions for the delay on pocket knives returning to airplanes.

Disclaimer: Please don't take this as union bashing or start in on unions. I can tell you that unions are 100% necessary in the airline industry. Google Frank Lorenzo if you need to know more about airline management and union necessity.
 

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To each their own. But I can bet you won't find many professional airline pilots/flight attendants/air traffic controllers who aren't members of one.
Yeah, when you have to pay dues either way, might as well join.
 

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Alright, you win. When the FAA, company mgmt. and multiple lawyers from people looking for a payout are trying to pin blame on anyone they can, for anything they can, it's nice to represent yourself with no protection from anyone when you did nothing wrong. Hmmm... Sounds a lot like defending a personal defense arrest...
 

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I am retired, if there is somewhere my wife and I want to go to...... we take the car now. Unless it's an emergency or my wife wants to spend some time with her sister or friend, I avoid airlines whenever possible. I truly admire my neighbors who have invested in their RV's. RV season is upon us, wish I was out there with them!
 

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Yeah, flying is a PITA, but if you want to get from coast to coast in 5 hours it's what ya got to do.
5hrs + 1hr or more on each end + rental car + delays + lost baggage + people crush + ...

TSA and incompetence in the "system" of cattle-haul flight has taken what little fun there ever was right out of it.

I'll take my own car anytime I'm able to do so, instead.
 

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The wife and I only travel for vacation reasons. We started driving every where we go about 6 years ago. Two to four thousand mile driving trips have really become a lot of fun. We get to see a lot of this country and eat at places we would have never thought of. Last fall we spent five days driving around Michigan... I'm taking the backroads.
Some of the best grub I've ever had was at the small mom and pop places between Nowheresville and Timbuktu.
Places like Blanchard, Wallace, and Bonners Ferry ID. Enumscratch & Concrete WA, Eureka MT to name a few.

To Hell with the TSA and others of their ilk.
 
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"and slits a flight attendants throat...well, I don't want to be on that flight."

If I was a flight attendant that just got my throat slit I sure would want a highly qualified nurse named Jeanlouise on that flight. :yup:
Not much a nurse can do about a slit throat 3000ft in the air. It's not like you can put a tourniquet around it. :tongue: I would, however, hold your hand QK. LOL.

Any one who really wants to get a blade on board an aircraft would have little problem doing it. It could easily be fabricated and integrated into any number of otherwise legal components. All the "no knife" rule does is catch people with no bad intent who either didn't know or forgot to remove it before going to the airport. It's a policy that does nothing to protect against a real threat. It's a feel good policy that has nothing to do with preventing terrorism.
I know what you're saying but with the crazy people who fly nowdays I just think it's a good idea to stow the knife in your luggage till you get off the plane. It's not necessairly terrorists that wreck havoc in the air. Flying is a unique situation and you aren't in the air for a long time (relatively). Most people can do without their pocket knife for a short period.

I like driving and agree with all of you who said some of the best scenery and food can be had in towns along the way.
 
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