Question for EMT's or Doctors/Nurses

Line it on the body side with two layers of heavy leather, or semi-flexible plastic. A piece of firm Kydex could be used, or several layers of white plastic milk carton contact cemented together.

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Most motorcycle gear/clothing companies sell replacement armor for their jackets, usually consisiting of an energy absorbing foam. The piece that covers the spine, hip or shoulders should be a relatively flat piece - this might be perfect for this application. Just cut it to fit. Might not be a bad idea to buy a piece of this and cut it to fit your pocket (between body and gun) if using pocket carry.

On a rather grim note- I have not seen a motorcycle fatality that did not involve crushing head injury or castration. Or both. I wouldn't put anything in the lower abdominal area that could snag/impale you.

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Agreed. If a head injury doesn't get you, multiple trauma is usually the next culprit. Injury or even castration sometimes comes during the groin's trip up the "gas tank" (some are merely airboxes these days) and over the instruments and bars. Low slung sportbike windshields are merciless here. Definitely wouldn't want to try IWB at 10-2. Smartcarry claims their product acts as a groin protector, but I don't think I'd want to try it! I have sat on a bike with one on - it's not very comfortable in a forward-leaning position.

But aside from head trauma getting hurt on a motorcycle is often a function of what you wear....When you dump a bike at speed and you wear anything BUT leather, everyplace the asphalt comes into contact with your body the pavement shreds the cloth and the result is what is fondly referred to as Road Rash.

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Leather is generally regarded as the best at resisting abrasion, although pretty much any riding-specific gear is built to take a slide better than street clothing. Your other mechanism of injury is impact - with parts of your bike, with whatever you hit, sliding into a curb, a tree, guard rails (often amputate arms/legs), barb wire fences, sign posts, culverts, drain pipes, etc. Hence the need for back protectors and all the padding/armor that makes us look like Power Rangers.

The more I think about it, seems like the best place for concealed carry on a bike would be a cargo pocket over the thigh (good muscle mass surrounding strong bone underneath) or a shoulder rig under the jacket (not likely to take a major hit here - if you do you're screwed anyway).

tough one

Impact and abrasion. I think the good docs commented about dispersing energy on an impact w/ a fanny pack or such. If that is your route, you may want to check out the CE Approved impact absorbing armor available at www.newenough.com

I have these pads for all my scooter jackets. Pretty thin and, I guess, could be padded behind a fanny pack or such without much problem.

I've usually shied away from leather vests, but I picked up a concealment vest fromCoronado Leathers. I've been kicking an idea around of affixing a kydex holster, think adhesing into the concealment pocket, (like a vertical shoulder rig) while on the scoot. I may try to do that, not sure. If I do, do I wear my leather padded jacket over top of my vest, under my vest, or just say to heck w/ it and ride barearms. Yikes!! Being an MSF instructor, it would not look good for me to ride w/ out long sleeves of some sort.

Some guys use off the body like tank bags, etc. One guy conceals his in a compartment in front of his hard saddle bag. The problem I see here is transition from off the body to on the body.

Regardless of the proposed solution, this is a tough one and there are compromises and risks involved in whatever method is employed.

Giong down on a bike is so situationally dependant, that it's hard to say what works and what doesn't. Name a situation and I've probably seen it, but there are hundreds more that I haven't seen yet. I'd *guess* that your best bet would be shoulder harness or something that was mentioned earlier, a thigh type harness. Neither of which would probably be very comfortable on a cycle. I don't ride so I'm only guessing here. The touring type bikes would give you more of-body carry options obviously. The sport bikes would be a little tougher in that sense but I'm sure with the right mindset that you could come up with something.

When you go down, (hopefully you never will but the odds are totally against you considering the stupidity of a good portion of people on the road today), it's really not going to matter where that firearm is, you'll probably get it torn off or shoved somewhere you don't want it shoved! I don't like the idea anymore than you do, but off-body carry in consideration of less body trauma do to an accident would be the best compromise.

There have been many informative and thought provoking posts in this thread. I thank all who have contributed.

I have heard of all kinds of injuries from bike accidents. Up 'till now, I had never considered castration.:aargh4: Perhaps helmets should come with a matching cup!

Based on input from this thread and some personal head-scratching, my current thoughts for on-body carry would be:

1. Select as flat a weapon as possible (I'm thinking Kahr).
2. Position the weapon over a less vulnerable area of the body, such as the abdomen or thigh. I once fell on a wallet that was in the inside pocket of my ski jacket - it felt like I cracked a rib (which I have done), so I'm staying away from shoulder rigs.
3. Place some type of semi-rigid pad (leather, plastic, Kevlar) between the weapon and the body to distribute impact force.
4. Ensure that the weapon is sufficiently secure that it is unlikely to move excessively or be easily dislodged.
5. Don't crash.

I'm sure there is no perfect solution - I'm just trying to come up with something that is a reasonable balance between risk of injury and risk of being unarmed.

If anyone has anything they'd like to add, please jump in.

SSKC

some last comments

P95, Good link to the collision. It reminds all us on 2 wheels of what can happen. I believe it was a gal who was on the bike, and quite an accomplished rider. The original link w/ comments from the gal on the motorcycle. http://socalsportbikes.info/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=34948&page=1

SSKC / ExSoldier - there are predominantly 2 types of MC injuries that can be mitigated to an extent w/ safety gear. impact and abrasion.

abrasion - sliding on the pavement in an involuntarily dismount of the motorcycle. This is when the skin gets turned into hamburger as friction between asphalt and human skin slows and eventually stops the motion of the rider. Safety gear to combat abrasion includes - kevlar, leather and some man-made materials.

impact - when your body first contacts w/ something hard, e.g., pavement, other vehicle, part of your own MC. Safety gear to combat imact is some type of body armor and helmets for the ole brain bucket. For body armor, CE is a rating that has more cache in terms of testing and protective capabilities. The armor spreads the force over a larger area and minimizes damage to your person.

If you are worrying about your gun causing injury, I would say it would be impact injury and not abrasion injury. That is why I gave a web link to CE armor you could put between your body and the gun. And I have that armor. It is not bulky at all!! If you go the route to protect your body from your carry piece on a fall, please choose impact armor, and try to get a CE rated armor padding.

In all honesty, sliding down the asphalt, your gun/holster combo would be more than adequate to combat abrasion. At the very least, all your other abrasion riding gear would have given way long before a metal slide on a gun gave way.

ExSoldier - I'm going to be a little forward (apologies if I offend you) and say ... make your dream a reality. Get the bike, get some MSF training and safety gear, and ride the heck out of it. There are many deals on the 1500 goldwings (since the 1800 came out). If it really is a dream/longing of yours, just do it.

I'm not a doctor or in the medical field. I am a rider and a certified MSF instructor (rider coach) in the commonwealth of PA. I do think/plan/implement on things to manage risk.

Lastly, I am seriously itching to get my bike out. I'm having withdrawls. Can't wait until the salt is washed off the road.

This is a great question and I agree there are probably no good answers. That being said, I feel I might contribute something here. I'm a nurse, I ride a cruiser style cycle almost daily, I carry at all times, and I was recently in a minor collision. If I'm going to work, I carry in a fanny pack at 10 o'clock. If I'm out for fun or other errands, I carry strong side in an IWB holster. The trunk of the body will take a bad hit usually only in a bad spill. Most damage is to arms, legs and of course, the head if unprotected. Therefore, I think normal waist carry or shoulder rig is as safe as anything.
When I had my collision (I rear-ended a SUV that stopped short in front of me) fortunately I was just starting to accelerate and wasn't going fast. I pitched over the handlebars and smacked into the back of the SUV. Since I was going to work, I had the fanny pack on. It wasn't even close to being hit.
As an interesting aside, when the police responded to the accident, two officers were at the site, I spoke at length to them and noone paid the slightest attention to the fanny pack.