[mi2az]

Ok, I find this absurd. My in-laws just passed all the requirements to get their CCW. They live in Washtanaw County between Ann Arbor and Jackson.


They were told and then told us if someone breaks into their home they are required to do the following or face being arrested and prosecuted for breaking Michigan law .

1. Must call 911 and get the operator with what is happening.

2. Yell loud enough so the 911 operator can hear what your saying and gets recorded.
"Stop, I just called 911 and the police are on there way. I have a gun and will shoot you if you come any further".

If they do not follow this procedure, they can then be held criminally responsible.

I don't know if this is just a scare tactic or what. They were also told that even if you follow the above procedure, you WILL be arrested and have to go to trial and expect to pay at 100K or more for legal expenses.


Then even if you are found innocent, the family can sue you in Civil court but you are not allowed to sue them.

WTF

Is this for real :aargh4:

 

[DM2]

The short answer is I don't think so. Maybe the person who told them this was making a suggestion. During my class, the legal portion was taught by a lawyer and he told us, that in MI, the use of deadly force is legal under three circumstances: during a rape, during a car jacking and during a home invasion.

Personally, I have seen stories in the news where people defended themselves in their home, or in one case, while at an empty house the victim owned, and were not charged.

I am in the process of searching the MI laws I have found to see if anything is addressed but in the meantime here is a link that may have the answer. It is a long document but it may be helpful: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

 

[SonofASniper]

Wait. Who told them this?

 

[DM2]

Here are some other helpful links:

MI No Retreat Law
2005 House Bill 5143 (Repeal ?duty to retreat? in self defense ) - Michigan Votes

Michigan Legislature - Section 780.972

Michigan Legislature - Section 768.21c

Michigan Legislature - Act 309 of 2006

Hope this helps get you the answers you need.

 

[theotherlis]

Following that protocol sounds like a very easy way to end up dead.

That link posted is a good one. If you follow the PDF pages it is page 201. Pretty clearly stated, too.

 

[Roaddogg 4040]

Have you been able to find out who told them this? I just took my CCW class in Michigan a month ago and we were never told anything even close to this at all...

Steve

 

[KenInColo]

Here in Colo, we have the Castle Doctrine (a person's home is their castle) & even w/ that, that (what the OP related) was the recommended scenario. e.g. barricade yourself in a room w/an open line to 911 & speak loud enough so that 911 can get the recording of the entire incident. Let the perp know not to enter the room.

I still think ambushing the perp (inside your home) gives you the best tactical advantage.:wink:

 

[natticarry]

Are you sure they were told they had to do this? Our instructor mentioned it was a good practice to do that in Ohio if possible but it wasn't a must. Its just extra evidence for a defense, but you shouldn't go out of your way or risk your life to do it.

The getting arrested is most likely a true statement and you should be prepared to get arrested after a shooting no matter what State you are in. It doesn't mean you will be charged or tried but most departments will make an arrest after a shooting and hold you while they sort out the details.

 

[Thanis]

I'm 100% positive this is something the instructor informed them and I'm 99% certain they misunderstood. The instructor was just sharing a good idea (if you have time, call 911, be loud and verbal, leave line open). Pros and cons to this, but almost all advise has pros and cons.

MI has castle doctrine, so my understanding intruder in house, you are justified to defend yourself.

 

[mikestilly]

Ok, I find this absurd. My in-laws just passed all the requirements to get their CCW. They live in Washtanaw County between Ann Arbor and Jackson.


They were told and then told us if someone breaks into their home they are required to do the following or face being arrested and prosecuted for breaking Michigan law .

1. Must call 911 and get the operator with what is happening.

2. Yell loud enough so the 911 operator can hear what your saying and gets recorded.
"Stop, I just called 911 and the police are on there way. I have a gun and will shoot you if you come any further".

If they do not follow this procedure, they can then be held criminally responsible.

I don't know if this is just a scare tactic or what. They were also told that even if you follow the above procedure, you WILL be arrested and have to go to trial and expect to pay at 100K or more for legal expenses.


Then even if you are found innocent, the family can sue you in Civil court but you are not allowed to sue them.

WTF

Is this for real :aargh4:

Whomever told your in-laws that this is a requirement should not be teaching a CPL class. What you posted above is absurd. What was probably trying to be explained is this: If someones life is in immediate jeopardy you have a right to defend yourself. With that said you are also fully responsible for your actions. If let's say your neighbor came to check on you to make sure everything is OK and you shoot and kill him thinking he was intruder you will most likely be charged with manslaughter and possibly murder depending on the exact circumstances. With that said there is also the fact that just because someone breaks in your house also doesn't give you authorization to just open fire on them. It all depends on the situation. If someone breaks in you pull out your gun and your life wasn't in jeopardy i.e. you shoot them while their in the window and they don't have a weapon you can be charged with manslaughter. It depends on the situation. In my CPL class we went open a complete wide variety of situation from in the home encounters to carjackings etc. It sounds like your in-laws might want to take a class from a more qualified group because even though you should call 911 you don't need to do so as a requirement to defend yourself.

Mike

 

[edr9x23super]

I would be mighty careful about who I listened to; Advice from an attorney is where I wouls start; I would not listen to cops, range lawyers, gun shop experts or even a whole bunch of CHL instructors out there.

Find yourself a good criminal defense attorney in Michigan who specializes and is board certified for that type of legal specialization, and schedule a consultation; even if you have to make a 200 mile drive, it is worth it to know what you can and can't do. Take my advice and ask him what he charges to retain him, and keep his card in your wallet or purse; a whole lot of lawyers do that for a modest yearly fee; mine costs me 50 bucks, and for that I get his card with his cell number he carries with him 24/7 365 days a year.....

 

[mmmgaspacho]

Here's a good breakdown of the castle doctrine in Michigan:

Stand Your Ground

Dave

 

[Rugergirl]

I've never heard of that in my CPL class or in the Michigan Firearms Laws book I was given at the class.
If somebody is in my home(or anywhere else) and pointing a gun at me the first thing I grab won't be the phone.:hand1:

 

[Electraclyde]

That sounds like the "standard" speech that is given by our Sheriff when he hands out the permits after the board meetings. I believe it is meant to be a "scare" tactic to keep new CCW holders from becoming "trigger happy"

 

[JimmyC4]

Purely speculation on my part, but I'd guess that this procedure was a "suggestion" as to the best way to avoid prosecution if involved in a shooting.

Way off base in terms of the law...

 

[automatic slim]

Great idea........as long as the burglar doesn't cut the phone lines.

 

[J Bowen]

Well as far as legal costs for self defense
while using a firearm I can say from personal experience
it cost me about 20k not 100k.
but still a lot of money.

 

[stog]

If the victim has time thats an ideal thing to do so the police know whats going on, where the intruder, and victim are in the house (identify who is who).

 

[Landor]

The 911 call is good evidence to prove you were justified. We do have the castle doctrines and as long as your life was in jeopardy they will protect you. If you shoot someone through a door or a wall then that might be pushing it depending on the DA. In Michigan you have a right to use lethal force to protect you, your family and or property but common sense also need to be in play.

 

[havegunjoe]

You never want to be recorded....

I'm 100% positive this is something the instructor informed them and I'm 99% certain they misunderstood. The instructor was just sharing a good idea (if you have time, call 911, be loud and verbal, leave line open). Pros and cons to this, but almost all advise has pros and cons.

MI has castle doctrine, so my understanding intruder in house, you are justified to defend yourself.

And you don't want to be recorded saying you are going to shoot someone. What you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. It won't be used for you. You will not be sure what is coming out of your mouth in a high stress attack situation. There is a video by a lawyer called Don't Talk to Police. Google it and listen to it. It runs about 45 minutes and even has a cop telling you the same thing. It is great advice. Unless the Constitution doesn't exist in MI you are not compelled to testify against yourself so keep your mouth shut and don't be recorded. Also unless you are some Mafia Don it won't cost you 100K either. I would have your in-laws question whoever the instructor was about this information they are giving out. What are they basing it on? Absolutely plan on being arrested but the cops are playing the odds that something underhanded is going on. Let a lawyer talk for you.