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Discussion Starter #1
I've been thinking about getting a red dot/reticle optic for my AR. However, there are a lot to choose from, and in a wide range of prices. With that in mind, I have a couple of questions for members who have mounted optics on their AR. Also for those who have both mounted optics, and flip-up sights in an off-set position:

1. When it comes to optics, is it a matter of "you get what you pay for", or are there good optics out there that don't cost several hundred dollars?

2. Are there any disadvantages to having both mounted optics, and flip-up sights in an off-set position?
 

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There are plenty of good optics out there without getting into the several hundred dollar range. Just make sure it has good reviews on handling recoil and battery life. You don't want an optic that will crap out on you during a 500 rounds class. And most of us will never need our AR's for battle conditions.
That said, if you are going to buy a $1000 AR, don't skimp too much on the sight. I like to keep my guns and optics paired how I think they should be. I don't like sticking $1200 scopes on $600 rifles either :wink: Not for my shooting.
 

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A budget makes all theoretical optic questions... less theoretical.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
There are plenty of good optics out there without getting into the several hundred dollar range. Just make sure it has good reviews on handling recoil and battery life. You don't want an optic that will crap out on you during a 500 rounds class. And most of us will never need our AR's for battle conditions.
That said, if you are going to buy a $1000 AR, don't skimp too much on the sight. I like to keep my guns and optics paired how I think they should be. I don't like sticking $1200 scopes on $600 rifles either :wink: Not for my shooting.
Checking customer reviews makes good sense. In fact, all your points and suggestions make good sense. And I didn't realize having a mounted sight, plus offset, flip-up sights, were for battle conditions. Glad I asked about that. Thanks PAcanis.
 

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Tstone, I didn't touch on the offset sights vs optics. I've got no horse in the offset sight race, so no opinion. The AR's I have with red dots all co-witness with the irons.
 

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Red dot sights are a you get what you pay for thing, to a point. Stay 100 dallor and up and you'll be ok. Definitely get iron sights. They should be zeroed, and once zeroed the tend to stay that way. Once zeroed the only change you need to make is for temp. Every 10 degrees, will change your point of impact by one moa. So the hotter it gets your round will impact 1" higher at 100 meters for every 10 degrees hotter it is then when you zeroed. It goes the same for cooler temps also, except you point of impact strikes lower by 1 moa for every 10 degrees cooler. This goes for your red dot site also. The number of clicks that = 1 MOA very from brand to brand on iron sights and red dots.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Tstone, I didn't touch on the offset sights vs optics. I've got no horse in the offset sight race, so no opinion. The AR's I have with red dots all co-witness with the irons.
My mistake. Thanks for clarifying.
 

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Red dot sights are a you get what you pay for thing, to a point. Stay 100 dallor and up and you'll be ok. Definitely get iron sights. They should be zeroed, and once zeroed the tend to stay that way. Once zeroed the only change you need to make is for temp. Every 10 degrees, will change your point of impact by one moa. So the hotter it gets your round will impact 1" higher at 100 meters for every 10 degrees hotter it is then when you zeroed. It goes the same for cooler temps also, except you point of impact strikes lower by 1 moa for every 10 degrees cooler. This goes for your red dot site also. The number of clicks that = 1 MOA very from brand to brand on iron sights and red dots.
I appreciate the info vminghelli2! I've never tried mounted sights and it's a learning curve.
 

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Normally you see Off-Sets mounted on carbine/rifles in conjunction with a magnified optic due to the lack of room to have a scope and BUIS deployed. This allows the user to simply rotate the rifle when presented a close in target when their zoom is too high.

Most guys running an RDS have either a fixed FSB and a folding rear BUIS or both front and rear folding BUIS and their RDS and irons co-witnessed. I prefer fixed FSB, because then should something go to crap I can simply use my RDS tube as a giant ghost ring rear and still make decent hits out to 50y or so. Normal procedure that I've been taught is to zero your irons 1st, then co-witness your RDS and fine tune it's zero when you get the chance.

I prefer a lower 1/3rd co-witness, some guys like an absolute, I think it really is a personal preference. As for cost, I tend to lean the opposite way and will normally pay as much or more for an optic & mount than I will for the gun. It really depends on your intended use. For instance a "plinker" I'd go with a Vortex or similar, something for HD I'd go with an Aimpoint, even if I had to stick with the BUIS until I saved the money for it. I also don't mind shelling out money for quality mounts as they will allow you to remove/swap optics and return to zero.

Chuck
 

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I currently have a red dot, fixed front sight, and folding BUIS. They are 1/3 co-witness.
It works very well.
But I'm making a change.
1-4x, ffp, illuminated.
At 1x it is essentially a red dot (etched reticle so illumination not necessary).
At 4x the dot grows and it has sub tensions out to 500 yards.
I'll still keep the BUIS, just in case. But not offset.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Normally you see Off-Sets mounted on carbine/rifles in conjunction with a magnified optic due to the lack of room to have a scope and BUIS deployed. This allows the user to simply rotate the rifle when presented a close in target when their zoom is too high.

Most guys running an RDS have either a fixed FSB and a folding rear BUIS or both front and rear folding BUIS and their RDS and irons co-witnessed. I prefer fixed FSB, because then should something go to crap I can simply use my RDS tube as a giant ghost ring rear and still make decent hits out to 50y or so. Normal procedure that I've been taught is to zero your irons 1st, then co-witness your RDS and fine tune it's zero when you get the chance.

I prefer a lower 1/3rd co-witness, some guys like an absolute, I think it really is a personal preference. As for cost, I tend to lean the opposite way and will normally pay as much or more for an optic & mount than I will for the gun. It really depends on your intended use. For instance a "plinker" I'd go with a Vortex or similar, something for HD I'd go with an Aimpoint, even if I had to stick with the BUIS until I saved the money for it. I also don't mind shelling out money for quality mounts as they will allow you to remove/swap optics and return to zero.

Chuck
I found an acronym key to better understand the terminology in your post. That's a good thing too because it's helping me learn more. :smile:

My AR has a fixed A2 front sight, and a folding rear sight, so I could mount a RDS.

Thanks Chuck R
 

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Yes, you do get what you pay for, however, depending on your use, it may not be worth the extra money. Some people love to spend your money because it doesnt affect them and will just say buy an eotech or aimpoint. They are great sights, Ive used both, but Ive also used a vortex red dot and was pretty happy with it, just like many other people. I dont know that I would go to war with it, but for just regular range use it was just fine, at half the price. Ive also never ran offset sights. I prefer a quick detach mount and just taking the scope off if I need to use sights for some reason to avoid the whole canting thing.
 
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I found an acronym key to better understand the terminology in your post. That's a good thing too because it's helping me learn more. :smile:

My AR has a fixed A2 front sight, and a folding rear sight, so I could mount a RDS.

Thanks Chuck R
You know, between Chuck and Pat, I was ciphering those acronyms, too :yup:
I almost posted the link to the acronym list, but figured you'd say something if you needed help.
 

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I found an acronym key to better understand the terminology in your post. That's a good thing too because it's helping me learn more. :smile:

My AR has a fixed A2 front sight, and a folding rear sight, so I could mount a RDS.

Thanks Chuck R
Sorry about that....

When you look at your RDS mount, take a hard look at a cantilever VS a straight mount. The cantilever puts the RDS further FWD and it helps with your peripheral vision around the tube. It's another personal preference thing. Some guys like the optic up close, but I like it further out shooting with both eyes open.

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Sorry about that....
Not at all Chuck R. I don't mind learning new things, and I appreciate your - along with everyone else in the thread - taking the time to share your insight.


You know, between Chuck and Pat, I was ciphering those acronyms, too :yup:
I almost posted the link to the acronym list, but figured you'd say something if you needed help.
Thanks for the thought PAcanis. I tried to cipher them, for about a minute, and just decided to look them up. It didn't take long.
 

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We have two AR's , a 16" 223 wylde and a 10.5 9mm . Both of our AR's were going to get different optics but after two builds optic were scaled backdo to $$ and as it turns out to our benefit as they both work well with our choices . My wifes 9mm runs a Primary Arms 2moa MD-ADS with a high mount on her 9mm AR . The dot does not line up with the flip up sights but the sights are useable thru the optic if that's is ever needed . It has around 3000 rounds fired thru it over the last few years . It has not been turned off yet ether and still running on that first battery . The primary arms dot when turned up will give off a glowing dot or star effect but never found a need for more than a mid power level and many times 3 to 4 clicks is more than enough for bright day light needs . Same optic is now sold as a SIG also and both made by Holosun with primary arms input .

I hunt with both dot optics on handguns and scopes on long guns . A tried to go with a dot optic in the past on a long gun but I have never been comfortable with them when a cartridge is capable of well placed shots at long range !! I tried a mid priced 1-8 scope a buddy has on his 20" AR15 but ended up with an ole favorite power level 2.5-10x42 but this time with a Nikon prostaff 7 and I am very pleased with it . IT has a 30mm tube offers great low light image with enough field or view for close range work .
 

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We have two AR's , a 16" 223 wylde .
That Wylde barrel you have - even though (I assume) it only says 223 on it, it will still shoot 556? I've read it will but it's a snug fit for the 556 and haven't spoke with anyone having first hand experience. Have you had any pre-wear issues using 556 through it?
Thanks
 

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Yes mine runs well with heavier 556 ammo too and all though there can be variances from make to make mine is a Criterion /kreiger barrel . It also has a chrome bore but is still a sub moa shooter- barely - with federal 69gr match king 223 or imi same bullet 5.56 . My plinker ammo is 55gr federal 223 or wolf 55gr fmj . Wolff gold is a sleeper . Stuff shoots well .
 

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That Wylde barrel you have - even though (I assume) it only says 223 on it, it will still shoot 556? I've read it will but it's a snug fit for the 556 and haven't spoke with anyone having first hand experience. Have you had any pre-wear issues using 556 through it?
Thanks
Well, my experience with the .223 Wilde chambering has allowed 556 NATO to run without issue. The accuracy, however, suffers a slight negative-effect. But it would be hard to recognize that difference in the field. My barrel is stainless so erosion issues would be hard to confirm, none so far. :yup:
 
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