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Better to ask now than actually find out...

A friend of mine ("Mary") was run off the road on the way back to Newport News over the weekend. Some guy merged into her car (Ford), not even realizing that he was merging into Mary's car even as his car ground against her Ford. Mary describes the incident as "ran off the road" as she is still coping from the incident but for all I know, I did not get the time of day of the incident, and this could have been some drunk guy...

Poor Mary and her Ford were slammed against the guardrail and then somehow spun out into the middle of her road, with her airbags deployed.

In this case, if nothing else, would you even draw on this offending person (if you could), or would that be just unjustified "road rage?"

Keep in mind that Mary is a bit of a sheep and is one of the friends I worried about a few months ago that could have been influenced by the tattletale described in my earlier posts. I asked Mary why she didn't brake and she said it never crossed her mind - sounds like she may have been in condition white...
 

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For the scenario as described: I think the events leading up to the incident would be a determining factor. I doubt one could ascertain this to be a credible threat, control a spinning car, acquire the target and get good shot placement. Best bet is to control your vehicle and try to remember details for the report.
 

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I think if your being slammed into a guardrail you need to keep both hands on the wheel to keep control of the vehicle. Try to get a license plate number and avoid being t boned by another vehicle in oncoming traffic.

Not a time to be going for a gun.
 

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In this case, if nothing else, would you even draw on this offending person (if you could), or would that be just unjustified "road rage?"
Absolutely NOT. If she had drawn on this guy in this situation, she could:

1. Go to jail.

2. Get sued.

3. Lose her carry permit (yes, I realize she doesn't have one).

Now, if the guy had decided to do some road rage himself and came at her in a threatening manner after the crash, that's a different story.

Funny that you should post this, though.... many years ago, a few miles outside of Tuscaloosa, Alabama, there's a section of a few miles where one direction goes to two lanes while the other stays as one. A few miles further, it goes vice-versa. It's "unique." Anyway, my aunt was driving with her (then) baby of about a year old or less. Some crazy man in a truck kept swerving at her and acting nuts and he finally forced her off the road, although the vehicles didn't contact.

He then skidded to a stop up ahead of her and came running back toward her. She had some little "mouse" sized gun, like a .25 or .32 in the car. It probably wasn't even loaded. She panicked, pulled it out and aimed it at him as he was approaching. He quickly decided to return to his truck and drive off.
 

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Hope Mary is ok, as you describe the situation it is possible the other driver was probably DUI or otherwise incapacitated. A no shoot situation.
 

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You get in a car crash and then wonder if it's justified to pull a weapon and shoot someone for having done that to your car? What is this, a trick question? :confused:

Some guy merged into her car (Ford), not even realizing that he was ... [doing it].

... slammed against the guardrail and then somehow spun out into the middle of her road, with her airbags deployed.
Basically, that's it, yes? Ran off the road, at which point her car spun and came to a rest.

In this case, if nothing else, would you even draw on this offending person (if you could), or would that be just unjustified "road rage?"
Question: What current, impending threat would need stopping, at the instant you imagine drawing your firearm?

The answer should be pretty clear, and that essentially should be your guide as to whether it's justified or not.

About the only reason I can think of in which my use of force would be justifiable AFTER such a crashing of my car would be if a person were coming after me and further threatening my life. Anything else would essentially be seen as, and would basically be, penalty for the earlier damage to my car and to my pride/ego/manhood/whatever. That's verboten, big time.

If you pose a present danger to me or mine, to the point where I believe that deadly force is what's required to help me survive your attack on me, then you can be pretty certain I'm going to do all that I can to survive. But if there's no continuing threat to me, you can be pretty certain I'm neither going to feel threatened nor attack another person for any reason, even if that person happened to be involved in the earlier crash.

Massad Ayoob has a pretty good summary of the standard he recommends for citizens to carry concealed defensive firearms: click
"Justified use of lethal force requires that the innocent be in immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm."​

Lashing out at someone in penalty for a prior action, let alone an action merely perceived to have been knowingly directed at a person, doesn't hardly meet that standard.
 

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Keep in mind that Mary is a bit of a sheep and is one of the friends I worried about a few months ago that could have been influenced by the tattletale described in my earlier posts.
I missed the earlier posting to which you refer, but let me point out that now is a perfect opportunity for you to gain some influence with "Mary." She just had an incident that probably scared the daylights out of her.

So let's extrapolate on this.... You could very gently point out to her that this incident could have just as easily been much more than an auto accident. What if the other driver had been an intentional assailant on a deserted stretch of highway at night (see my post above)? There's a real possibility that she would never be seen alive again.

Like most "sheep" (your word, not mine), I'm sure she never expected this to happen when she got behind the wheel. If an incident like I just described were to happen, she wouldn't expect that, either.

I'm not suggesting that you "preach" to her in any way. Most sheep will only turn a deaf ear and go about their typical, "It won't happen to me!" outlook. But if you express a genuine concern for her safety, which shouldn't be a problem since she's a friend, you might have a positive influence in turning her head around.
 

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Better to ask now than actually find out...



In this case, if nothing else, would you even draw on this offending person (if you could), or would that be just unjustified "road rage?"

...
I do hope you are joking. You really can't seriously consider drawing on someone in anger over a car accident or near accident. That's scarey.
 

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Yesterday, a guy in front of me at the vending machine took the last pack of peanuts. Should I have put two in the chest and one in the head?

Kidding!

:rofl:

Sorry, OP. I mean no disrespect but sometimes my sense of humor....

:wave:
 

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If someone does not see the light, and runs a red light... t-boning you in the meantime and nearly (or actually) killing you..... there was NO INTENT TO DO SO. So, it's not a reason to be pulling a gun.
 

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No, we can't go around shooting people over traffic accidents as described in the OP.
Why in the world would anyone even think about that ? That would be murder.
If you're asking about someone purposely trying to use their car to kill you, then I guess you could but you might be better served by using your time and effort to escape.
Sorry if this was posted already, I haven't looked through the rest of the thread yet.
 

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If its an accident pure and simple, no way in heck would I draw, although you can be killed, its not a hostile act, and the intent behind it is not hostile in its nature. If it was something where a vehicle was pursuing me and attempting to run me off the road or cause me lose control of my vehicle, that would show hostile intent in my mind.

However, my main concern would probably be keeping both hands on the wheel to control the vehicle. I've never tried shooting while driving a car, but I have shot from a moving vehicle, even with a turret to stabilize the weapon system, its not a very easy thing to do.
 

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In this case, if nothing else, would you even draw on this offending person (if you could), or would that be just unjustified "road rage?"
No, because it's either unjustified, or impractical - or both.

I had a similar situation - except I managed to stay on the road. Called the police - they were of no help. Bad, but so what... Trying to shoot at a car speeding away would be fine for a movie, but not for the (my!) real life.
 

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Some years back, there was a spate of deliberate "accidents" on Chicago freeways for the purpose of robbery. Several people got killed as I recall.

You think that some predators won't bump you to steal your Mercedes, or seriously smash a car to take a woman for fun?

Reread that Knoxville story.
 

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Sounds like an accident (possibly a drunk or a medical situation), certainly not a situation in which to present a firearm.

She should be glad that she's still around to talk about it.
Now she should go see that attorney.:yup:
 

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Draw? Really?

This type of thing is exactly the situation that the anti's predicted would happen when Michigan became a "shall issue" state.
Thankfully it hasn't happened. I seem to recall hearing a statistic that said that there has only been one incident where a CPL holder in Michigan had to draw at the scene of an accident, and in this case the courst ruled that it was self defense due to the attack from the other driver.

There may be several reason for the low number of CPL holders using their firearms after accidents;
1. CPL holders are more SA aware, better defensive drivers.
2. CPL holders are able to defuse the situation through words.
3. There are not a lot of CPL holders in Michigan. (I don't think this is valid, but as a total percentage we are still less than half, but growing every day.)
 
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