Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 77 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Recently in Everett, WA (very close to where I live) a bank robber has robbed over 6 banks within the last two months. Yesterday he robbed one and 15 minutes later robbed another 1.5 miles away. In both situations he was armed and pointed the gun at numerous people in the bank, he threated to fire but has not yet done so. I was at another bank only a few miles away when this last one occured so it got me to thinking.

I'll try to eliminate as many variables as possible to get the best responses from you guys.

As you are about to walk in the bank (armed of course) you look around to see anything out of the normal, car idling close to the door, someone looking suspicious in close proximity etc..nothing.
I assume most of us do this as walking into a bank armed should make you extra aware of your surroundings. You get in a line and notice the man a few feet ahead of you has large black sunglasses and a hat covering a lot of his face. Since you've seen the news the last couple of days and the guys face is plastered all over it, you slightly recognize his build and face. Not wanting to be paranoid you just carefully watch his movements as he walks to the counter. Then it happens... u see him pull his firearm from his coat and point it at the teller. He loudly states that he wants money in a bag or he's going to start shooting. As of now you strategically have the advantage as he hasn't turned around and has no idea your armed. This may only be for a couple of seconds though so if your going to draw and fire you need to do it now. What would you do? You know this is probably the same guy since your in the same area as all his other hold ups. He hasn't fired before, but are you willing to take that chance?...... let me know what you all think. I hope to never be in this situation but I bank in that area all the time and am not going to change that. I dont believe we should allow criminals to terrorize us to the point we change our everyday routines for them.... just my opinoin though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
At the point I saw him and recognized a possible threat, I would have exited and let my fingers do the walking. Starting a gunfight in a crowded bank seems like a losing proposition to me. The teller is obviously in the line of fire, caution being the better part of valour and all. Time to beat feet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
If you see someone suspicious outside the bank in a car use the drive thru, get your banking done without the confrintation. You see something while at the window call the police from the safety of your car.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Best involvement - zero!

I have considered this many times and am especially extra alert when I do have to inside the bank - but unless a perp started shooting I'd have to remain ''just another customer''. I do also analyze fields of fire so as to be ahead of the game just in case - good to know where is or isn't safe for shots to go.

Chances are the silent alarm will have been hit so cops will be there eventually - then if still on the scene be a good witness - absorb all details possible.

Remember - it's the bank's cash!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
Exit stage left as rapidly but unnoticeably as humanly possible. Then get the boys in blue there as rapidly as possible, via 911 on the cell phone.

However, if he starts shooting, tying people up or pointing that thing my way, it's fair to say that the SHHTF.

Then it becomes an even worse day of everyone involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,075 Posts
+1 Chris


observe, stand down and be a best possible witness you can.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,005 Posts
I would immediately exit the bank upon first sign of possible suspicious activity/persons. Observe from across the street w/ binos and call 911.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Why not shoot in the pelvic area? Hollow point should not penetrate through and would have mega damage and should incapacitate him.

Why wait for him to turn around and see you walking out and get shot in the back, or just get shot if your backing out.

The BG is commiting a felony by armed robbery, Plus, if you have the castle doctrine, I believe you will have some legal protection.

I would probably un-holster my weapon, be at a low ready and start backing up towards the door.

Now, if this guy was irate, yelling about killing people, and swinging the gun all over the place. I would just cap him.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,703 Posts
blueyedevil said:
At the point I saw him and recognized a possible threat, I would have exited and let my fingers do the walking. Starting a gunfight in a crowded bank seems like a losing proposition to me. The teller is obviously in the line of fire, caution being the better part of valour and all. Time to beat feet.
+1 blueyedevil

Be a good witness and di di mao! :hand10:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
Unlike the convenience store (shop & rob) hold-ups, bank heist seem to be conducted more often than not, with a note and no gun showing.

Unless something happens that really convinces me that the "shootings are about to begin," I'd have a hard time justifying a shot.

mm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,431 Posts
I wholly agree with blueyedevil. The bullet that you fire is your responsibility until it comes to rest. No lane of fire = no fire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,868 Posts
I would not intervene unless Mr. or Ms. Bank Robber starts shooting or I reasonably believe that he/she is about to pull the trigger on someone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
As per the above post....you get into line.....the BG is a few feet ahead of you.....you see a firearm and you see him point it at the teller.....you hear him say,"the money or I start shooting"(shooting who??) I'm with kansas shooter(2nd. para).

Now...who's in the line of fire for the back of his head(remember he's a "few feet" ahead of you). The teller ? maybe. Another customer ? maybe. Even if you lean out.

Does he have a buddy with a shotgun in the back of the bank,or maybe even in the safety deposit box room ??

One thing for sure,you will have a split second to make a decission that might cost you,bank patrons,or bank employee's,their lives. Or............ a decision that could save a number of lives. ------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
1) The bank robber is not stealing your money.
2) It's not worth your life to save the bank's money.
3) If you start shooting and get killed, the bank is not going to put your kids through college and take care of your wife in her retirement.

My gun is to protect me and mine. I might use it to protect a third party. I seriously doubt I would use it to protect a third party's property. YMMV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
M1911, We each have our opinions on this matter.

In my above post if I unholstered it would be to try to save lives. I feel that I owe that to my fellow man. (sorry,that's just how I am.)I really don't care about the banks money.

BTW,I had a conversation with my wife earlier. She would want me to try to save lives also. ---------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,011 Posts
IF you're going to use "DEADLY FORCE"...BE DEADLY!

kansas_shooter said:
Why not shoot in the pelvic area? Hollow point should not penetrate through and would have mega damage and should incapacitate him.

Why wait for him to turn around and see you walking out and get shot in the back, or just get shot if your backing out.
It's called deadly force for a reason. Yeah we all know we're shooting to stop the attack but that's a euphemism....So here's what the JUDGE will say: SO...you used DEADLY FORCE...but you aimed at a non-lethal area.....so you must not have been convinced deadly force was truly needed...

That's why we shoot center of mass (COM) because hits in those areas are more likely to produce the needed results. That's why the preferred head shot is the forehead (cranial vault) or thru an eyesocket...because it's instant light's OUT...forever. Hit a BG in the jaw with a bullet and you'll have one mad BG but not necessarily an incapacitated angry BG.

Like most of the responses here, I favor discretion as the better part of valor as long as I can SAFELY exit without attracting attention. That's if I'm right near an exit or I can make an exit without any LATERAL movement. The BG will probably be experiencing tunnel vision and the other symptoms associated with extreme stress tachypsychia....but lateral movement may still have the effect of catching somebody's eye as movement. That would be bad.

If I'm deep inside the bank and this guy pulls his gun the first person I'm going to look at is the guard or guards if there is more than one. Then I'm going to look and see if anybody else in the bank is carrying...like some off duty cop....and see what they're doing. I might not start the firefight, but I dang sure don't want to get caught in a cross firefight, either!

I'm going to fix a critical spot on the BG that has GOT to be my first target just in case. That would be a cranio-ocular shot if he's facing me or vicinity of the medulla if he's looking away or to the side. That would be the base of the skull from behind or the bottom of the earlobe if to the side. If I'm in the vicinity of any of those, there is a strong liklihood he'll drop.

I'm a sheepdog, but I'll be danged if I'm gonna risk my life or anybody elses life for something insured by the FDIC. The only way I draw and go for the GUSTO is if the BG starts shooting or making moves that tell me he is preparing to commit murder....or if some OTHER sheepdog opts to take action in which case...I back his play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
It would be foolish to consider the pelvic area as a "non-lethal" one. Should you hit the abdominal aorta, or either of the two femoral arteries, a bleed-out would only take 4 or 5 minutes to occur.

Should any of the intestinal tract be penetrated, a slower, more lingering death can happen, when sepsis sets in.

For the most part, "shooting to wound" is more of a "TV fantasy" than anything else. Whether or not a gun shot kills is mostly luck, the speed help arrives, and seldom due to choice on the part of the shooter.

There is only ONE reason to shoot, and that is to "STOP." I equate that with hitting the off-switch. Not "pause" or "re-boot."

mm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,011 Posts
madmike said:
It would be foolish to consider the pelvic area as a "non-lethal" one. Should you hit the abdominal aorta, or either of the two femoral arteries, a bleed-out would only take 4 or 5 minutes to occur.
Certainly you can die from a pelvic shot, but it's not something I would call an instant "fight stopper." That's my point. Center of mass is far more likely to be that "fight stopper."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
Sure Thing

ExSoldier,...Agreed, if you absolutely need to take the person down without any reactionary response, then it needs to be in the "neural strip". No other area will be certain to drop them. Even with a "high-powered" rifle its the only shot that will guarantee sucess. Imagine a two inch horizontal strip that runs even with the "eye-sockets",(centered at the pupils) which runs around the head. Thats the target and its the "ONLY" sure thing.

Good Luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
Ex,

I'm not trying to sell the idea of a pelvic shot as being a good target, it was a response to:

Originally Posted by kansas_shooter
Why not shoot in the pelvic area? Hollow point should not penetrate through and would have mega damage and should incapacitate him.
In my opinion, any attempt to make a "non-lethal" shot is a bad idea for anyone other than possibly a SWAT sniper, and only then, under highly specialized circumstances.

It's just too much of a "crap-shoot," if I can get away with the term. The pelvic shot probably would never be a better choice than COM, but thinking it is non-lethal is a mistake. Should you hit the right spot, dead is dead, whether it takes 5 or 10 minutes, or happens "instantly." The latter being most unlikely.

I'm agreeing with you on shooting center mass as being the best choice, under most all circumstances. And under most all circumstances, I would be against attempting a "non-lethal" shot.

But for the sake of this discussion, I am saying that the pelvic girdle should NOT be considered a non-lethal target in the first place.

mm
 
1 - 20 of 77 Posts
Top