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Discussion Starter #1
I need some help folks. I'd like to purchase a knife to carry all the time for defensive. I can spend up to $100.00 but would like something around $75.00. I'll be carrying IWB. I thinking a folder. I like/prefer all black. It's main purpose will be for defense. I'm trying to figure out what the legal limit is on the blade lenght in Missouri where I live because I'd like to have the longest allowable blade. If you can think of something that is relatively easy to acquire and fits the bill, I'd really appreciate your opinion.

Don't laugh but I had looked at the Gerber applegate knife and also at this one:

http://www.knifeworks.com/browseproducts/Camillus-Tanto-Heat--Black-Nylon-Scale--Teflon-Coated-Blade--Plain-Edge.html

What do you all think?

Thanks!
Gideon
 

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I am certainly not the knife afficionado here but - am still wishing to get a Kershaw BOA (approx $90 seems best price, IIRC it is a 3" blade) - as my Buck is too slow to get into play for my liking.

I was impressed with the speed aspect when withdrawing BOA from pocket anyways - not sure how it'd work out for an IWB presentation.
 

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Missouri knife laws can be found here.

It appears 4" is your legal length, auto knives are off limits, and it also seems fixed blades are frowned upon. :rolleyes: It seems knives that looks like they are "readily capable of lethal use" are out. So, a folding knife under 4" that appears "utility" is your best bet. "All black" tend to be perceived as tactical and for defensive purposes. Silly but true.

Check out the Spyderco knives and Columbia River Knife & Tool for good knives with belt clips in your price range.
 

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Don't overlook ebay. I've picked up a number of quality knives NIB for well under list price. You might very well find a deal on a good Benchmade, Emerson or whatever other brand you like.
Jack
 

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Okay, I'll weigh in with my dismal .02 here. I have a Spyderco Delica that I carry for utility primarily and an emergency backup just in case the ranges close and I have no choice. I am under no illusion as to my chances in a knife fight. First, I realize the utter certainty that I will be cut and perhaps cut badly.

In fact, I think I'd almost prefer an empty handed encounter since my Aikido training would be much more useful than if I had my hand wrapped around a weapon with which I'm far less than expert.

The extent of my knife training comes from casual contact with the NCO's of the 2nd Ranger Battalion and 1SF group when I was on active duty and we happened to travel in the same social (LOL) circles. This means I was close buddies with officers in those outfits and they let me be a "hanger on." There were a few perks (like training) to be had and I took advantage of the opportunity.

Do you have any training in knife combat? Remember, a knife does not have the shock impact of a bullet and so even though a mortal wound may have been dealt, the BG may still have enough ooomph! in his system to kill you out of pure mean spite. He's got to suffer hydraulic failure (bleed out to unconsciousness) for you to win and that might take awhile. What are you going to be doing while this is happening and he's still on his feet....and pretty mad at you?

One of the things the rangers taught me was that a man with his achilles tendon cut doesn't have a leg to stand on. If he can't stand, it will be difficult for him to effectively attack. But a move by you to go for that spot will likely have to come during a struggle on the ground....you can't go for it right off, or the BG will take advantage of your back and hand you your own liver.... Just something to think about...
 

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Spyderco Gunting (black, desinged to be used as kobutan, more on the black tactical side tho.., might be over you limit)

Spyderco Dodo (blue or black, short blade, can be used a kobutan)
 

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Oh, and for training, Get SouthNarcs training DVD's from Shivworks , and/or Jim Keatings Drawpoint Series here

Re: Knives vs. guns, this is a very complex subject that gets over-simplified most of the time. There are so many individual factors that come into play that generalizing beyond firearms are better beyond 3 feet (assuming weapon in hand) is an exercise in futility.

In fact, I think I'd almost prefer an empty handed encounter since my Aikido training would be much more useful than if I had my hand wrapped around a weapon with which I'm far less than expert.
As a general rule I agree with the statement: A twelve year old with a knife is equivalent to a 12th degree blackbelt. So for me, (for deadly force encounters) give me a weapon everytime, and I speak as someone with 20+ years of Aikido plus other martial arts...
 

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Spyderco has probably the most accessable opening system. Cold Steel Voyagers are stout, and are cheap enough not to worry about damage "snapping" them open.

If you like the "wave" opening system, Spyderco can be readily modified by opening the hole with a Dremel.

I'd go with the Camillus before the Gerber, unless you just mold to the Applegate's ergonomics. The flippers are very fast, with practice. Be aware, someone just mentioned that St. Louis (maybe all MO-?) considered the "assisted openers" to be switchblades. (If you like one, though, it's easy to open them up, and take the spring out. The Kershaw Leek and Boa come to mind, and both have the flipper.)
 

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I own several knives, and I like them all. But the knife I kept going back to, and now carry exclusively, is the Gerber Paraframe II. It's a silvery puter color, and has an incredibly smooth open. And so far it's been 100% perfectly reliable, and durable. And best of all, I think I spent $25 on it at Wal-Mart. Since then I haven't carried any of my more expensive knives.
 

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Defensive Knife:
1. Small fixed blade (check out shivworks)
2. Benchmade Griptillian in open state in kydex sheath (if law prevents a FB)

This is your primary weapon? No gun?
If so then carry a real fighting knife (FB) AFTER you have had some training and be tried by 12.
 

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My favorites are the Spyderco Endura and Delica, the Scorpius, and Spyderhawk.

In the CRKT line, I like the Grant Hawk DOG LOCK. Stout lock, simple, and the right blade length.

In the SOG line, I favor the Flash II

Each of these knives can be found used on line lots of times for less than 50 bucks..Oh, and for a dedicated self defense folder, you need to go for a serrated edge, Especially in the hawkbilled blades like the spyderhawk. :1saufen:
 

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Recently I have been carrying my Spyderco Para Military. It may be alittle out of your price range, but I would check on ebay and maybe you could find one for $100.

Most of the time my knife opens mail and cuts fruit. It sure will hold an edge though.

Good Luck in your search. And whatever you decide to get make sure that you train with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Great responses and all are very appreciated!!!

The selection of knives out there are positively over whelming! I've never had any training with knives. I carry a Kahr P9 or a S&W 637. I will carry a Kel-Tec P3AT when I'm in dress clothes and simply can't pull off anything else. At work I'm not allowed to cary and I'm limited somewhat when I ride a motorcycle, but I can carry the knife more often. My whole life is lived in a very low threat environment but I still like the extra protection.

I don't think there's anyone around my area (Perryville, MO) that does knife training but I might get one of the DVD's.

As I said, for me, I consider a knife an absolute last ditch better than nothing proposition.

Thanks again for all of the input, I really do appreciate it!

Gideon
 

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I'm not a knife person, but I do carry them as a Weapon of last resort.
Depending on what/where I'm going I'll carry a Kershaw, SOG TRIdent of a CRKT Desert Special Forces Knife, CR-M1614Z. What I like about the CRKT is the hand guard. Unlike most folders where you had can slip onto the blade, this one should prevent it.
 

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First, the legal junk, just to clarify a little...Here's a link to Missouri's Revised Statutes. See number 10 under "definitions." Basically it's illegal to carry a concealed knife in MO. However, unless it's a fixed blade, or has a blade longer than 4", or is double-edged, or is a butterfly-knife or a switchblade, it is not considered a "knife" under MO law (makes a hellovalota sense don't it? :rolleyes: ). In other words, you can carry the nastiest tactical folder you can find as long as the blade is 4" or less.

Now for the fun part: If you have a CCW you can carry any knife except a switchblade or a butterfly-knife (as long as you have your CCW permit on you). It doesn't matter how big it is; you could literally carry a 12" bowie if you wanted to.


As far as the type of knife, if you have a CCW (I hope you do since you carry :biggrin: ) and are primarily interested in a defensive weapon, I'd go with a small fixed blade (Shiv-Works Disciple, Spyderco Ronin, Benchmade Nimravus Cub, CRKT Companion, etc.) in addition to a folder. A fixed blade is faster to deploy and less affected by "butterfingers-syndrome."
For folders, I like Spyderco, Cold Steel, Benchmade, SOG, CRKT, etc. Really, just find a knife from a reputable manufacturer that you are comfortable with. What works for me may not work for you. That said, I like folders that can open on the draw, such as Emerson, and Spyderco's and some Benchmades with the ghetto-wave.

Definately check out SouthNarc's DVD's...Great stuff.
 

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I don't carry a knife for defense per se, I typically have a spyderco on me though.

Check out www.shivworks.com for some interesting ideas on defensive knives, especially the "clinch pick" and "lil loco".

They will make you think about certain up close and personal defensive problem solving.
 

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TwoRavens said:
Spyderco Gunting (black, desinged to be used as kobutan, more on the black tactical side tho.., might be over you limit)

Spyderco Dodo (blue or black, short blade, can be used a kobutan)
What a pity Sal at Spyderco stopped production on the Gunting and wonderful news Bram is working to keep it alive. I own two black, one blue and two red with color kydex sheaths for each.
 

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For under $75 you can pick up a Spyderco Endura FRN Plain Edge (rather then SS which can be slippery when S*** hits the fan aka "Flight Fight or Flee") and there is also a drone available for training. If you are serious about using any knife for SD then you should have a drone trainer too. Most companies don't offer trainers so people will dull the blade which is not nearly as safe as a drone.

The Delica IMHO is too small for most peoples hands for SD. It looks good and many will believe it is a good self defense knife but I have played with them and would not count on a "five second hold" which means after a full force impact your hand should not move from the original grip, else you might very well cut yourself.
 

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If strictly for defensive purposes and your mode of carry permits, you can't beat Ka-Bar's TDI law enforcement knife, designed by and for law enforcement. Worn between the belt and pant, it presents nicely and is ideally positioned in the hand for gross defensive movements (which is all you'll be capable of). Here is mine in a pic, and a link:



https://www.kabar.com/product_detail.jsp?productNumber=1480PROMO&mode=category&categoryId=1,7,8,9&categoryName=Law Enforcement

And, it retails for $39 and I got mine online for $26.

Later,
Jeff
 
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