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Well I used the search function and did not see this posted if it is please delete, merge or whatever.

Four men enter a Red Lobster in NLR Arkansas. They have one or two hostages. They gather up employees and customers.

Do you engage? Hand over the money? If you chose to engage are your skills and equipment up to the task at hand? Any ideas?

Red Lobster employees, customers robbed at gunpoint | todaysthv.com

There are a ton of variables. Is you family there, are the bad guys split up, what are they armed with and so on.

Personally I would keep my weapon concealed, hand over the money and unless put in a situation where shots were fired let them go.
 

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From the report its saying only one guy was armed,It would really depend on the situation and if I felt they may decide they weren't leaving witnesses,I'm not your average shooter and know what my abilities are,besides the fact if I'm in a Red Lobster it's because I left the Gun Range with my weekly Range Buddy so there are 2 excellent shots that are armed which cuts the odds from 4-1 to 2-1
 

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Yeah with one armed guy that would make a difference there are conflicting reports about who and how many were armed.
 

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The wife and i often enjoy watching some of the murder/rape crime solved type tv series. Not like CSI, these are about real crimes, and often have real audio or even pictures related to it. I find it interesting to see what people are capable of and how exactly they go about comitting these atrocious crimes, and of course what was the background. It helps me to remember situational awareness is key. Also helps me to know of what things i should be aware of that i may not have thought of otherwise.

Anyway, i can remember one where two men who had some type of grudge against a particular employee went in and held up the restaurant, got the money, then proceeded to force everyone into a walk in fridge. They would open the door, shoot some bullets, shut it to reload, open again, you can see the situation i'm sure. Just absolutely unimaginable.

Its a hard decision from afar, but a crime that you may think is just a robbery could easily be a planned murder where robbing some cash happens but may have not been the only or even the main objective.

All i can say, is as the night manager of a local restaurant, i hope i am never faced with such a situation! Also, i would hope my employees would not say to the robber "yes there is cash in there!". An answer more like we had a lot of credit card sales and not many cash would have been a little better. Its almost like he was asking permission and the employee gave it to him! And lastly, i hope a robber knows what hes getting himself into by trying some shenanigans like that with me!
 

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For some reason when we engage in these discussions we always give ourseslves a choice and an out that very likely wont be available.
If you have one or two armed gather people start moving them robbing them the store etc etc what makes us believe that we will have the choice of leaving our weapon concealed? Its more likely in that sort of situation that if given time to actually focus attention directly on you as they get around to robbing you, you will simply be disarmed at gun point and likely as not shot.
I have seen the training videos where it always seems we the good guy always just walked in or we werent noticed etc etc so that we have some advantage we likely will not have in a situation like this one.

Two armed men move in and need to gain control over a small crowd in order to do what they want. In that situation engaging in the first moments as they are trying to get that control established before they get focused directly on me using element of surprise I think gives the better chance of, survival, quickest put down of the armed BGs as can possibly be accomplished hence least collateral damage to innocents though no guarantee there wouldnt be some.
As usual one could die in the attempt also.

No way to really know unless one is stuck in that spot but just playing the reading game on this one Im engaging and sooner the better.
 

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My training and equipment is up for the task, although four-on-one with bystanders doesn't bode well for a successful outcome. That said, I'm not getting down on the floor, period. They can have the cash, but I'm not assuming the wait-to-get-executed position.
 

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From the article:

Police said one of the suspects had a 9mm handgun with a chrome barrel.
The suspects took money out of the ticket books from two employees at that time, then two suspects made one of the employees go to the manager's office. The other two men gathered everyone else in the restaurant into the main eating area and forced them to get on the floor.
Question, Where was the gun? I see the gunman needing to be the first one put down. I also see the other three running once the shooting starts.

My standard for this type situation is I do no save other people or businesses money. If they start shooting people or involve me then I'm in all the way. And I don't like floors or being moved to other areas by force.

With that said would need to be there to know what would be done and when it was done, but most likely something would happen on their involving me. The longer you are involve the better their chance of finding out you are armed before you can act. I think one needs to set limits and don't go pass them willingly.
 

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First: My training and gun are up to the task.

Second: I am not going to be place in a position where my family and myself will be shot like cattle going to slaughter.

Third: This is a very dynamic situation. If you are going to act, then act. If not, hope they do not find your gun and decide to end your day.

Forth: Hind sight is always 20/20. Please refer to point number 1...
 

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Tough call...

With people close and in the line of fire I would be hesitant to engage and see how things played out. Armed robbers generally want out as fast as possible as not to get caught, so I suspect the chances are slim people are going to get frisked by the BG'S. I'm not going to be the one who accidentally shot an innocent by-stander in the heat of the moment by over reacting.

When you pull that weapon, rest assured, your troubles are just beginning. So I would have to be reasonably sure things are not going to turn out well.

There's so many factors that come into play there's no absolutes.
 

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I still remember a news story from when I was a kid where some guys robbed a Brown's Chicken (one of the Chicago suburbs) and proceeded to execute the few people inside. If I remember correctly they had them kneel on the ground and shot them in the back of the head. I'm with those of you who said they will not go to the ground. Now, all I need is a gun....
 

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Training and skills aside, I'm not being rounded up. I'm betting even money that when the first round is fired at them, the BGs are taking the nearest exit.
 

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I think anyone with masked faces will get an automatic shift to defensive mode, but if it occurs away from your observation there may be a delay in recognizing what is happening. Obviously the sight of a gun or sound of shots and/or the shouting of obscenities and orders will also heighten the senses and kick it into defensive mode. But if you are not the first one to be encountered (i.e., you are a customer dining) you may have some time to evaluate, draw and seek cover.

Each situation may be different, I appreciate these scenarios because it makes me realize this can happen. I would not have expected it at a Red Lobster.
 

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That is why I use these accounts to think up scenarios in my head and play them out.

Example 1: I'm waiting for a table.
I ALWAYS am "that guy" seeking to have my back against a wall, able to see the entrance/exit etc. depending on the layout you might be behind the bad guys when they enter. Remember you are not the police, you don't need to order them to "drop it" etc. bad guy has a gun and his back is too me? Good. My family is for sure going home.

Example 2: Dinner eating / waiting for food.
Given the layout of the three Red Lobsters I have been in, chances are you do not have a direct line of sight on the main doors. If your able to figure out what's going on, you might have the chance to move your family back into the kitchen / seek out the emergency exit(s) etc.


See where I'm going with this? Think up every possible situation you can then play the scenarios out in your head from start to finish (police show up and order everyone to the ground etc).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I'm with Mike1956, Harryball and OldVet on this one.

I'm fine with giving up money. At that point, it's not worth forcing a situation where an innocent could get hurt. Being concealed is a beautiful thing in this situation.

But when it progresses to assuming the execution position or getting herded into a back room, it's "go time".

{edit}
In thinking about this, it's a shame that these dirtbags are probably clueless on which actions on their part, are triggers for actions on our part. They may have no intention of causing harm, and just want my money, and tell me to get on the floor, because that's what they see on TV, not knowing that I was compliant up until that statement and now I'm going to shoot them.

Too bad there isn't "professional dirtbag training".
 

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Speaking of training. I found this today, and it fits into this scenario. Take a look. I would be interested in knowing how many have trained for this type of situation. I have, the last training session was in january.


 

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With the luxury of shooting on my own land, I'll set up silhouettes in awkward (but safe) positions, and let my son tell me when and what order to draw and shoot them in.

He knows it's much more difficult for me to go right-to-left, vs. left-to-right, and then having to change direction really slows things down.
 

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Harry this is why I say FOF is something everyone needs to spend more time doing. You are reacting to others at their pace, while it may be a set situation and scenario you have more than one player and don't know how or when it's coming down. You have to do and react to what is before you when it is there. You are working the OODA loop of your own and the others in the scenario.

Far different than shooting paper on the range line. Even multiple targets being call by someone else, they are still set and know factors.
 
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Harry this is why I say FOF is something everyone needs to spend more time doing. You are reacting to others at their pace, while it may be a set situation and scenario you have more than one player and don't know how or when it's coming down. You have to do and react to what is before you when it is there. You are working the OODA loop of your own and the others in the scenario.

Far different than shooting paper on the range line. Even multiple targets being call by someone else, they are still set and know factors.
Very true. Another point to ponder in this type of scenario. You are right FOF is the best training for this type of scenario...:yup:
 

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I wish I were young and mobile enough to play FOF and mentally agile enough to contemplate OODA loops, but I've found myself firmly lodged in the "Don't mess with old guys with guns" catagory.
 
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