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Can anyone out there help me with my question? I looked at the Remington ammo catalog for the 357 SIG 125 gr JHP. There are two, the regular Remington box and then the Remington UMC box. The UMC is considerably less expensive, but the published ballistics for the two are absolutely identical. The two rounds also look the same. I called the national radio show "Gun Talk" and was told by the host that I shouldn't be asking what the difference was in these two ammo offerings, as I was "crossing a line" in doing so. Then I called the Remington factory and was treated like I was trying to steal company secrets. I only asked for help in picking one over the other for my personal use. Are they identical? Is the brass different? Is the powder different. Does the more expensive box have flash suppressive additives or other additives I should know about? I am not a re-loader, I just want the best of these two for self defense concealed carry in my Sig P229, without wasting my money if, indeed, they are the same in all aspects. Thanks for any knowledgeable input you can give me.
 

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UMC is usually the overruns from the Remington line. Kind of like "seconds" when it comes to tires. Sometimes there is no difference and sometimes there is a blemish in the finish.

Or to put in Alaskan terms, it's kind of like the difference between your eight dog sled, and your next door neighbor's eight dog sled, and you both have all huskies, some brown some black, and maybe some pink ones as well. :danceban:
 

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Welcome Aboard and Greetings from Rocky Top Tennessee
 

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Welcome Aboard and Greetings from Rocky Top Tennessee
 

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UMC is usually the overruns from the Remington line. Kind of like "seconds" when it comes to tires. Sometimes there is no difference and sometimes there is a blemish in the finish.

Or to put in Alaskan terms, it's kind of like the difference between your eight dog sled, and your next door neighbor's eight dog sled, and you both have all huskies, some brown some black, and maybe some pink ones as well. :danceban:
This is great humor!

Welcome to the forum.
 

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Welcome to Defensive Carry :wave: The best forum for sharing ideas and experience.

Help us keep this forum great by remembering the Golden Rule: Please treat others as you want to be treated.

I am from Kansas.
 

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Welcome to Defensive Carry :wave: The best forum for sharing ideas and experience.

Help us keep this forum great by remembering the Golden Rule: Please treat others as you want to be treated.

I am from Kansas.
 

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Welcome to the forum from sunny and too-warm Arizona!

Now for your question. Probably 25 years ago, the major US ammo manufacturers met the challenge of low-cost imported ammo by coming out with their 'generic', plain-boxed ammo lines in popular calibers. I'm guessing Winchester led the pack as their "Winchester White Box" (WWB in gun-forum speak) is the most ubiquitous. Remington followed with UMC as did Federal with their American Eagle brand. Interestingly, Winchester was the only one who kept their name on their economy line. Remington had long ago ditched the Peters brand but resurrected the UMC label (for Union Metallic Cartridge, a company they acquired eons ago), and Federal invented the AE name.

So what's different about the generics? The answer is anything from "very little' to "a lot." As far as exterior ballistics are concerned, the generics match the high-priced spread identically - at least in the catalog. But if you ever looked at a handloading manual, you know that there are any number of 'recipes' that can launch a given projectile at a certain velocity. So while the generic-label bullet may leave the gun at the same speed as the full-priced ammo (which I'll call 'regular' from here on out), there may be a lot of other things goin on that are less obvious. Typically, the generic stuff is dirtier and leaves more residue at both chamber and muzzle ends of the gun than the regular ammo. Muzzle flash will almost always be greater, especially when compared to defensive ammo which uses powder formulated to minimize flash. And overall quality won't be as good. I've seen blind primer pockets, upside-down primers, primers not seated flush, crooked bullets and cases with crushed case mouths come out of boxes of generic ammo. Accuracy is typically another victim to the lower cost. In particular, the UMC brand has never shot well (accurately) in any of my handguns compared to comparable loads from Win and American Eagle.

With respect to brass, in a couple of years of reloading, I have yet to notice a difference in brass between generic and regular. I don't know about the bullets, but my engineering sense suggests that there may be some relaxed quality for the bullets used in generic, like greater tolerances on bullet weight or concentricity. The ammo makers won't sell anything that doesn't meet SAAMI specs so it's safe to use, but greater variability leads to reduced accuracy for sure.

I've been around the shooting sports a long time but I never heard it was bad form to ask what the difference was between generic and regular ammo lines. Heck, you're a consumer and you deserve to know what you give up to save a few bucks. Ask away, but just don't expect you'll get the definitive answer.

So your question boils down to "which do I use?" One consideration is that you won't find a huge selection of defensive bullets in the generic brands, although there are a few JHP loadings, so that may drive you in one direction. If generic ammo was all I had available to me, that's what I would use. But since there is better stuff available for defense, the common approach is to use the plain box stuff for practice, and load up with "designer" ammo for carry and home defense.
 

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Welcome...

from Central Florida!


ret :31:
 

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Welcome from Wisconsin!

I'm glad that you asked the question because for once I've got the answer to what I was wondering about for years. I've never used UMC, usually American Eagle or WWB & the answer you got from gasmitty is something I've suspected.
 

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Welcome from Ohio.
 

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Enjoy the forum.................... :wave:
 

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Welcome from Tennessee...."Patron State of Shootin' Stuff!".

Gasmitty did a great job of explaining the difference, so I have only this to add. I spoke with a fellow ex-cop who works at Remington and he stated to me that the premium Remington lines (like the Golden Sabers) have such things as nickel casings used and SEALED primers, as well as fewer Quality Control steps. The sealed primer part is important as I only use those for carry when at all possible. It protects the primer from the elements and prevents deadening of the primer itself. In the police departments I worked for we only used these types for duty ammo because we were in and out of vehicles so much. This exposed our ammo to the elements and environment changes like humidity more than a normal person.
 

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Welcome from Virginia.
 
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