I think those are just old school HP's. Whatever is reliable in your gun. I like HST's myself.

 

I carry the HST's also.

I does not matter much what ammo you choose. Just make sure that you run a few boxes through your new pistol.
I would run 100+ FMJ rounds through the gun, then start testing the self defense rounds.

Nice purchase though!

 

The Federal HST is as good as it gets.

 

HST gets my vote. HTP, High Terminal Performance is just a standard old school JHP. The reliable expansion of such is questionable.

 

Agree with the consensus about HST's. You left the other two 'best' rounds off your list - Ranger T's and Gold Dots!

 

Thanks for the replies. This is a great forum. I have been in LE for 15 years and have just recently started buying glocks. I know some people don't like them and I didn't at first. My duty issue is a sig 229dak 40. I fired a friends glock 23 and actually like the sig better in 40. Glocks in 9 and 45 seem to be great pistols. I shoot the glocks faster and more accurate then my sig although the p229 in DA/SA may be different. I don't care for the DAK trigger. I still shoot it well, but really like the glock trigger and can't believe how light the recoil is in 45 acp. I actually shot the glock 21 more accurately then friend's les baer 1911. The Les baer was amazing at 7 yards. Maybe that I just don't shoot 1911 often. I am not used to an external safety, but it was a very nice gun. For $500 glock vs 2k for les baer, I was surprised at the results.

 

I like my G 21 too. Nice shooting pistol

 

Another vote for HST, its all I carry .

 

My wife and I both carry HSTs in our handguns.

 

IMO everyone has to find there own comfort zone as to weapon, ammo and holster and it is absolutely a joy when you find that combination, for me and my 45 200gr HP has been my choice for many years for both accuracy and getting the job done.

 

I have used Golden Sabers for a very long time and was always happy with them and the results in gel tests. What is happening is that the major ammo manufacturers are fighting for market share for both the civilian and LE markets. They are doing this by redesigning their bullets to expand more, penetrate at least 12" and retain almost 100% of their weight, after passing through barriers. If one advertises or performs better in tests, the others must respond in kind.

I know that for the HST, my new favorite, Federal redesigned it so that it expands much like an all copper bullet like the DPX. Instead of a expanded lump like you typically see with Hornady bullets, you get a nice petal shape with long and sharp petals with almost 100% weight retention. Of course, they must also penetrate through all FBI mandated barriers. Federal swears that the "HS" in "HST" does not stand for HydraShok. So what we have are ammo manufacturers designing bullets to do better than the competition, or at least equal to them, in the FBI test which many civilians use as their gold standard. The HTP is one of these new designs marketed for personal defense. My HST ammo says LE on the box which is a known marketing gimmick. However, they are less expensive than the all cooper ones I have been buying.

I do not think you can go wrong with any modern ammo but the Sabers are kind of long in the tooth so Remington now has the HTP, a more modern design. Keep in mind that many of these bullets are designed to score well in the FBI tests, not necessarily in human flesh and bone. After seeing a gel test of the HST when shot from a 3.3" XDs, now use them in my Glock 30s and Colt New Agent because they work well out of short barrels as I think most of the new ammo does. The loss in shorter barrels does not seem to affect bullets the way they used to.

 

We carried Glock 21 SF's at my agency and the duty load was the 230 grain Remington Golden Sabers.

Any quality 230 HP would be fine in my opinion as long as it fed reliably and you placed your shots on target.

 

The following information was taken from Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo and was current as of 2010. Does anyone know if the quote still holds true?


"While there are some Golden Sabers that make the list, be aware that the GS is an older design and may have issues with core/jacket separation. There is a new generation of GS bullets marketed to law enforcement only that has bonded jackets. No data is available that I've been able to find."

My understanding is that the bonded bullet is more desirable for shooting through barriers such as car window glass.

(Also, I see that the previous video mentions the two different types as well.)

 

The only people who worry about core/jacket separation are jello junkies. To people in the real world all those fragments cause additional wounding, which is a good thing.

 

I've never understood the concern over jacket separation, myself. Like you, it seemed to me to be an additional effect to cause more trauma.

 

And, let's face it. How often are we really going to be shooting through windshields or car doors?

 

Another vote for whatever you favorite premium PD round is. Some where around there is a post that included some info on the Remington HTPs. I haven't found it yet. Who ever did the test compared it to the older Remington Express load. From what I remember :embarassed: the new load went a little deeper and seemed to hold together better then the Express load. I believe the performance was better but not as good/consistent as the premium loads. I want to say this was during the peak of the shortage and this was all they could find.

Hope this helps
Mark

 

I'd pick HST, then GS - but I don't know anything about the Remington. What sold me on the HST were the wound ballistic workshops where they had LEO's buy all the ammo so no cherry picking and they perform a whole bunch of barrier tests. Do a search for ATK wound ballistic workshop and you get a good idea of their performance. Don't know if it directly correlated to the .45 ACP, but the heavier non-bonded HST's in 40 S&W performed better thru windshields - maybe weight/SD made up for it not being a bonded bullet.

 

Well, I could see where if you were shooting through auto glass or a car door the damage to the bullet could limit penetration to the extent that you might have a failure to stop, so that might be a concern for some LEO's, but I am not LE and in fact, am currently carrying the non-bonded Golden saber.

 

HTP is just another flavor of the day. All modern defensive rounds will put a hurt on a BG. Personally I stick with the LE HSTs. I cannot find any differences between the LE and the Personal Defense with the exception of price, with the PD running about 75% more.