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Lets say you and the sig other were out at a upscale rest, there are bout 60 other dinners there and 4 BG's walk in show their wepons and tell everyone to get on the floor. While 2 of the BG's stand guard 2 go table to table and demand purses and wallets and jewlery. You are armed (and for some maybe the sig other is armed) what would you do?
I know for me my wedding band dosn't come very easiely at all and this may irritate a already amped up BG, and my wifes setup cost me 2 months salary, and it would be very hard to just give that away ya know. Just some food for thought.
 

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Bruce - can't remember a link but IIRC we had something very much along these lines a few weeks or months ago - I'd need to go search but have to check that later.

Oh - think this was it - go take a peek and see if it is close enough

http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2572
 

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Yeah I read that one, but that was one person going table to table not weilding his gun threatening everyone in the place. I think things would be diff if there were 4 BG's instead of 1.
 

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Ahh OK - well, will give this one some thought.

One thing comes to mind tho as ever - I will not surrender my piece and neither will I willingly be a victim - same thing in some ways! But we do have a problem here!
 

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Bruces45 said:
Lets say you and the sig other were out at a upscale rest, there are bout 60 other dinners there and 4 BG's walk in show their wepons and tell everyone to get on the floor. While 2 of the BG's stand guard 2 go table to table and demand purses and wallets and jewlery. You are armed (and for some maybe the sig other is armed) what would you do?
I know for me my wedding band dosn't come very easiely at all and this may irritate a already amped up BG, and my wifes setup cost me 2 months salary, and it would be very hard to just give that away ya know. Just some food for thought.
Jewelry or life----the answer is simple to me.
 

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KC135 said:
Jewelry or life----the answer is simple to me.
But like I said my ring dosn't come off without quite a bit of persuasion, no this may upset the BG, and I don't want him tring to cut my finger off to get the ring or shot me to get the ring ya know.
 

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Tough tactical problem with 4 badguys, especially if they're organized that well, and I've only got six rounds in the revolver. Might have to try to recover one of the BGs' firearms. The previous thread only had one guy going from table to table.

However, as has been said on other threads, I'm not getting on the floor for anybody. I'd try not to be trapped in a booth when the balloon went up, and having everybody else in the place, including my wife, on their way to the floor should give me fairly clear fields of fire. This is one of those situations where everything will work out fine, or I won't care how it works out.

Something to think about is that there is more going on here than a simple robbery. If we let people get away with crimes simply because we are afraid to stand up to them, we deserve to live in the resulting society... which is what we're having to do now. If we lived in a society where it was known that criminal behavior would not be stood for, would be resisted by citizens even at some danger to themselves, we might not have as much crime.

Oh, I forgot... I'm not a cop.
 

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Jewelry or life----the answer is simple to me.
True enough, jewelry is replaceable, so is cash etc. If I am interpreting that answer the right way round - not sure!

I would like to know tho where the guarantee card is that says that not one of four armed BG's is NOT gonna shoot! Too many instances of rob AND shoot.

Maybe the show of guns is only wanted for intimidation - time may establish that but nervous BG's - probably ignoring rule #3 - might quickly get impatient. The odds to me would be that 4:1 odds are not good - that one of them at least is quite happy to start shooting - if one starts the others would probably join in.

The decision might be not ''if'' I shoot - but ''when''.

I will put up with loss of all but my life if necessary but also as has been mentioned - just how long do we keep letting BG's get away with it. Four armed (therefore lethal) threats are or should be enough in any court of law, to enable justification of shooting.

Biggest problem is the numbers - availability of cover, or not?. Has wife got carry and knows how to use - or not? Field of fire - safe or not? Any other CCW's in the house?

This one would require light-speed thinking and analysis - whether anyone would ''get it right'' - succeed or fail, is another matter entirely.
 

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Bruce, butter up the ring!!

Unless they start shooting, or want to tie me up, I'll be a witness, and let my insurance company pay for the jewelry.
 

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I think if it's me, I try to make sure as I go low (but not down) that the BG closest to me is in the rest's line of fire. I'm definitely going loud. My low position is better tactically since the forearm tends to get tense when it's holding something in a stress situation, so I would think this might send their rounds high to start with. The sheep are already on the floor and the BG's are all nicely silhouetted (sp?) standing up. If they're close enough, I go for head shots or high on the COM, more chance of ripping open the throat or hitting the aorta. In any case a really gory wound should stun the rest momentarily. I shoot, move to cover and shoot again. Move and shoot. Threat scan 360.
 

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Best to surrender the money than try to take 4 BG's. I would also casually order a fine red wine. Afterall, being robbed is thirsty work.
 

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I'm with tanksoldier on this one. Society cannot allow criminals to have free reign. Also, as said before, there is no guarantee that they won't shoot anyway. First time their attention is not on me, I would open fire from whatever position I was in, then seek cover as I continued firing. The innocents are on the ground and I have 15 rounds. Also, there is always the chance that another CCW'er may join in (although never something to count on when making your decisions).
 

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rocky said:
Best to surrender the money than try to take 4 BG's. I would also casually order a fine red wine. Afterall, being robbed is thirsty work.
I would have to go with that- unless things seemed to be heating up. What you're descriibing is a "team", and would indicate some degree of loyalty. If the situation was escalating, threats, violence to hostages, etc., I might go for trying to take a hostage myself. Timing and opportunity, get your hands on one, however possible, and stick your pistol in his ear. Don't get between them and the door, use your hostage to move them towards the door (try to get them to break and run); if they try to flank you, well... :hand4:

Sounds a little James Bond, but better than getting shot face down on the floor. :dead:
 

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Like every scenario is different...to some degree the exact reaction to any situation needs to be tailored to that exact event as it unfolds.

Without more specifics to base my answer on I'll say that I would get my wallet & the wifes purse up on the table.

I might possibly also hand my B.U.G. to my "better half" under the table. That would depend on ??? my gut feeling about it all.

My Self~Defensive handgun would very likely be unholstered & "at the ready" under the table.

If I feel that anything else is likely other than a grab some "stuff" and run then I'm grabbing First Advantage & I'm fighting.
 

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Everytime I read a thread like this I have to ask myself a question... Are there more BGs outside in a vehicle? hidden outside as lookouts? who are diners and made a cellphone call to let the four know the coast is clear?

Even if you are James Bond and whack all four with your five shot snubbie, all head shots, none had the bullets bounce off, all doa... You still can have Big Problems.

If all they want is my stuff, then go for it. But if they make a killing move, who knows?

BTW, with 60 people in the restaurant, these guys are stupid, and there is no way they can execute all the witnesses.
 

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Sheeple=Not me.

I'm fighting. 25 rounds of .45 or 31 rounds of 9MM says I die loudly, but not on my face.
 

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Stuff can be replaced. If they start doing things that are inclined to kill someone then let the game begin. Start out by being watchful. Know who and where they are.

I would shoot the leader first if there was one. I would take care of the one walking the floor then if the others were still at the door they would be the next target.

You got to figure that when the shooting starts people will start to move around and maybe head for the door if the shooting is not close to the door. You have got to remember cover and timing. Most BG's don't expect someone else to start shooting once they are in control. You have the element of surprise.

which one do you shoot first. It reminds me of a Clint Eastwood movie. Someone in the movie ask "how did you which one to shoot first. He said " something along the lines of I looked them all over and figured out which one was going to shoot first then second and so on." You have got to have a plan.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Something else to think about, when you are sitting there tring to decide what to do your sig other is more than likely in close proxcimity(sp?) to you and if you do decide to (or they make the decision for you) shoot then when they return fire your sig other is also in the line of fire = not a good thing.

As far as 4 BG's not being able to take out 60 people, ya remember how many rounds the BG's had during the North Hollywood shootout? More than likely the BG's will have enough rounds for several mag changes.

Lets switch it up a little, when the BG's make there presence known they fire off several rounds into the ceiling, now they have made it known that they are willing to use deadly force what do you do?
 

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Your mention Bruce re SO reminds me of the need for couples who carry to have a plan of sorts. Maybe a key word that would enable them to move away from each other in opposite directions towards any even marginal cover there was. At least separate themselves as being a near single target.

One other thing crossed my mind - we have I think thus far considered four BG's with handguns. Let's ramp this up a bit and say they have an AK each - that's 120 rounds of execution ability!!

As QK mentions and so do I often - we can only theorize up to a point simply because so many potential variables. As I said in my last post here - there is or would be, a need under such circumstances to be employing a mental refresh and eval' every milli second as things unfold. No rash heroic decisions but equally - the need to make decisions early enough.

Bottom line I think if shooting did start - is that few if any of would go down without a fight. The whole scene tho as I imagine it has very bad karma!
 

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Shooting into the ceiling is not an indication they want to shoot anyone.

I'll not post again on this one. You superheros go ahead...just hope I an not in the place when you start shooting, because you will likely get a bunch of people killed.
 
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