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The officer said he didn't commit a crime. Not sure about Kentucky, but in Minnesota, not leaving when asked is a petty misdemeanor, technically not a crime, but a civil infraction.
$25 fine
 

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How do you know the entire situation or how do you know what the person will do when confronted by one officer. The officers so not deserve criticism for just doing their jobs.
HUH? There was no crime committed, a totally 100% legal act , no need for one officer much less SEVEN........since when is it the job of any LEO to enforce a whim of a "manager" (likely former manager by now or soon IMO) especially since this was well before WM even announced their "non confrontational request"

Being an LEO is dangerous, that is fact, confronting law abiding citizens is normally not "that risky" especially in public places with several witnesses. The whole thing is stupid, WM calling LEO in the first place over nothing at all, the one LEO giving a lecture, the shopper signing a WM document (he should have simply left ASAP and not signed anything- he was under no obligation to do so)
 

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Oh please. That's Kentucky. I doubt seriously that a lone shopper legally carrying openly while minding his own business there is all that rare or alarming to anyone. This looks a lot like something that was orchestrated and filmed successfully for effect.
OC in much (most ?) of Ky is as rare as seeing lines on the hwy, its rare to not see it especially in the smaller town (even in W KY) though I think I did see more (quantity) of folks in E Ky when we lived there OC. Since KY went Constitutional Carry it may not be as common, only time will tell.
 

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The question I have is what was the paper presented by the Officer? It was hard for me to hear the audio clearly (hearing aids). I suspect the paper was a citation for trespassing, but I am not certain of that. Could it have been a notice of being banned by Walmart? If it was the Officer had no business handing it to the man since it in not LE work. I do think the Officer was professional in his duty.

As for the open carrying man who would not leave the store I think he did a disservice to us who carry. I know it was his 2A right to OC. However, in light of the recent Walmart shootings and the growing sensitivity about gun crime all he did (in my not so humble opinion) was to make gun owners seem recalcitrant and uncaring about people's perceptions. That is just bad PR for us. Which headline do you think reads more favorably for gun owners?

Man openly carrying a gun in Walmart refused to leave the tore when ask to do so.

Man openly carrying a gun in Walmart complies with the stores request that he not openly carry a gun in the store.

I am a staunch 2A supporter, so I think that doing anything that makes some of the public question the actions of a gun owner is just foolish and does us no good.
There is NO evidence he was ever asked to leave WM by any associates (which the LEO should have mentioned btw, ) the paper was to be signed saying he is banned permanently from WM and Sam's clubs nationwide. It's quite common for WM to ban folks for ILLEGAL (shoplifting, fighting , etc. ) first time I've seen them do it for a legal activity and Corp policy doesn't allow for what happened so ...
 

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So, if I understand this correctly, but without specific dates to match things up, the timeline of this is:

Last week Walmart issues a statement via national news media that it no longer allows open carry in their stores.
Then this guy challenges the policy by open carrying in one of the stores, where he is then issued a citation by local police and informed that he is now banned from all Walmart and Sam's properties nationwide.

IF that is the correct timeline then all I can say is this guy was justly served.
And, as usual, Stupid games = Stupid prizes.
I think you certainly do not understand it at all.
 

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I've not read through the whole thread. My take is that Walmart is asking that customers not openly carry in their stores. That addresses the concerns of their other customers who may not be fond of guns. In other words, you can still carry, just don't shove it down my throat.

Naturally, you have those folks who are "full tilt boogie" I'm going to carry because it's legal and I really don't give a damn for common courtesy or what anybody else thinks.

And those folks will end up screwing it up for the rest of us.
UM NO

This happened BEFORE WM made the no OC Request
 

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Knowing that Wal Mart has partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety is enough for me to stay out whether they sell ammo or ban open carry.... or not. I don't want a portion of what I paid for a loaf of bread funding the anti gun agenda through Everytown.
I agree 100% and we used to spend a bunch of $$$ there, that ended when they jumped into bed with Bloomberg et al.
 
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There is NO evidence he was ever asked to leave WM by any associates (which the LEO should have mentioned btw, ) the paper was to be signed saying he is banned permanently from WM and Sam's clubs nationwide. It's quite common for WM to ban folks for ILLEGAL (shoplifting, fighting , etc. ) first time I've seen them do it for a legal activity and Corp policy doesn't allow for what happened so ...
Good info. Based upon it I cannot understand why the LEO was having the man sign the document. That was in no way the duty of the police to serve a store policy document on an individual.
 

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It appears the manager was "too scared" to do the deed and requested that LEO did that . IF a customer made a MWAG call, dispatch certainly failed to to their job since OC is legal statewide - period. I'm guessing this was really a "SWAT" call and the caller should be arrested and charged IMHO
 
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I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm glad that I think open carry in public is about as smart as a screen door on a submarine.
You have every right to Not OC anywhere at all times. Simple enough:wink:
 

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You have every right to Not OC anywhere at all times. Simple enough:wink:

I'm not criticizing those who do it. That's totally their right. But for me personally, if I'm ever in a mass shooting situation I would rather not be the guy who yells, "Hey! Look at me! I'm armed so you had better shoot me first, mmmkay?"
 

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I don't know about that Bob what he did was perfectly legal LONG before WM was even thought of much less came to Ky. Besides that fact, the WM manager on duty clearly violated Corp policy of "non confrontational" even calling LEO for a non crime on a legal activity. BIG fubar on WM manager's part IMO
Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun. There are several reasons articulated, but the common thread is they want to be noticed.

I am not defending Walmart at all, what they did was wrong. My position is that if he was concealed nobody would have known he was armed and there would have been no drama.
 

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Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun.
Not I, so if you would, please make that, "Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun... EXCEPT this one guy I know on this one forum..."

No, seriously. I do not OC to be seen. In fact, whenever I OC, it's always with black jeans in a black half-drop leg holder with my black pistol. Most people never notice it unless they're standing behind me in line at the store.

"Why do you carry it?"

Speed.

"Why don't you conceal it?"

Lack of speed.

I am not defending Walmart at all, what they did was wrong.
Agreed.

My position is that if he was concealed nobody would have known he was armed and there would have been no drama.
If he'd OC'd in an unobtrusive manner, he and we all would have been fine, as well, but this guy was but the tip of the iceburg. Too many folks in too many areas "trying to push the envelope."

Instead anti-discrimination laws, we need pro-lawful laws: "If an activity is lawful in public, you cannot ban it from your store."

Citizen: "But it's dangerous!"

LE: "It's far less dangerous taking a shower."
 

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@since9 -- "If he'd OC'd in an unobtrusive manner, he and we all would have been fine, as well, but this guy was but the tip of the iceburg. Too many folks in too many areas "trying to push the envelope."

We agree on that, sir. :yup:
 

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Not I, so if you would, please make that, "Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun... EXCEPT this one guy I know on this one forum..."

No, seriously. I do not OC to be seen. In fact, whenever I OC, it's always with black jeans in a black half-drop leg holder with my black pistol. Most people never notice it unless they're standing behind me in line at the store.

"Why do you carry it?"

Speed.

"Why don't you conceal it?"

Lack of speed.



Agreed.



If he'd OC'd in an unobtrusive manner, he and we all would have been fine, as well, but this guy was but the tip of the iceburg. Too many folks in too many areas "trying to push the envelope."

Instead anti-discrimination laws, we need pro-lawful laws: "If an activity is lawful in public, you cannot ban it from your store."

Citizen: "But it's dangerous!"

LE: "It's far less dangerous taking a shower."
Thereby taking the business owners rights away from them through law? I'm beginning to see there's a LOT of "me, me me" people on this forum who don't give a crap about anyone's elses perceived rights but their own.
 

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"Why don't you conceal it?"

Lack of speed.


Instead anti-discrimination laws, we need pro-lawful laws: "If an activity is lawful in public, you cannot ban it from your store."

Speed of presentation;

Speed is relative. How much faster are you really OC VS CC? Maybe .25 second? Average reaction time to visual stimulus is .25 seconds when you are expecting something like a timer. It gets much worse if caught off guard. I never practiced "quick draw" I just practiced perfect draws, when I need it, its there.

Do you use the same holster for OC VS CC?

It all comes down to property rights, they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises.
 

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Speed of presentation;

Speed is relative. How much faster are you really OC VS CC? Maybe .25 second? Average reaction time to visual stimulus is .25 seconds when you are expecting something like a timer. It gets much worse if caught off guard. I never practiced "quick draw" I just practiced perfect draws, when I need it, its there.

Do you use the same holster for OC VS CC?

It all comes down to property rights, they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises.
No. That applies to single family dwellings, and somewhat to private clubs. It does not apply to businesses open to the general public.

About five days ago, I had a very long conversation with a real estate attorney specializing in handling cases where rights were not as cut and dry as they are for single family dwellings on 2.5 acres.

Bottom line: "Business property rights are absolutely not absolute." If you don't believe me, try hanging an "open to the public" shingle then telling everyone who walks in with pink or purple hair that you have the right to prohibit them from entering your business. You will be slapped with a suit, then fined along with a court order compelling you to provide service so fast it'll make your head spin.

Bottom line: You do not "ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises." That is an oft-repeated and always wrong misnomer. It applies to single family dwellings. Your home is your castle. Your business, however, is not, and you are subject to a myriad of laws concerning your business.

Now, here's what you CAN do. You can kick everyone out and close shop. However, if that happens twice when the pink or purple-haired person comes around, you're in trouble, as you're only closing shop when they're around and you open right back up when they leave, which renders you guilty of utilizing one right as a business owner to skirt the rights and freedoms of your customers. Again, bad news for the business owner who attempts this. They get caught. They get fined. They're compelled to comply with court orders, and if they continue to refuse, judges can eventually, in some areas, shut down your entire business.

I have a question for you: Why do you continue to insist, "they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises?"

It's wrong, at least during normal business hours in areas you've opened to the general public.

Now, after closing time, you can tell everyone who comes to the door to go away, and you can even let your friends inside and play cards.

That, however, is a very different legal situation than during normal business hours. Different rules apply.
 

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I have a question for you: Why do you continue to insist, "they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises?"
I mentioned it once. I see businesses all the time issuing a "notice of trespass" to people. That has the force of law.
 
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