[kbizzle]

last tuesday, a frozen yogurt store / parlor close to me was robbed early in the eve. my wife loves this place so we often go there after meals in nearby restaurants. we happened on the scene right after the robbery on tuesday and the scene was chaotic.

i'm surprised at how bold this robbery went down. one guy's lighting off rounds into the ceiling and the other is collecting wallets and valuables from patrons.

if i were there with my pregnant wife, i believe i would have shielded my wife and tried to just be a good witness. i would have given the collection robber my wallet and my iphone. but what if he saw and insisted on the other thing in my front pocket? wow, i just can't imagine offering up my CCW to a trigger happy robber.

i know it's impossible to know exactly what you would've done but i do like to think out as many possible scenarios as i can. this one has me stumped and it has bothered for about a week now.

how dumb is it to rob a frozen yogurt store in december anyway? there was a similar robbery at a durham convenience store this weekend. the guy robbed the register and then proceeded to rob the patrons.

anyway, any insights as to how you would've reacted would be appreciated.

here's the only write up i could find on the incident:

------------

Yogurt store, clients robbed

DURHAM -- Police responded to an armed robbery at Local Yogurt, 2501 University Drive, at 7:26 p.m. Tuesday, according to Durham police.

Two men wearing masks and dark hoodies entered the business and demanded money at gunpoint from an employee. One suspect fired a shot into the ceiling while the second suspect took wallets, a purse and a laptop from customers in the restaurant.

Duke University police said five students were among the victims. No injuries were reported.

The suspects were described as black, 18-30 and 5-foot-9 to 6-feet.

 

[Harryball]

In this situation with your wife being with child, giving your wallet to the perps would be a good idea. I have started carrying two wallets for this very scenerio. You give them the secondary wallet..This way you can keep your ID away from them. If they do come after you and or your wife, I think you know what you must do. :comeandgetsome:

 

[kbizzle]

the two wallet system is not a bad idea, harry. going to the DMV is the worst!

yes, i would give up my wallet and whatever else i had on me to escape unscathed, especially since there were two assailants. i feel like if i quickly volunteered up my wallet and phone as he came by he probably wouldn't inspect my pockets closely. however, if he did want the lump in my front pocket that (unbeknownst to him) is my CCW then... i'd have to make a really quick decision.

 

[Harryball]

the two wallet system is not a bad idea, harry. going to the DMV is the worst!

yes, i would give up my wallet and whatever else i had on me to escape unscathed, especially since there were two assailants. i feel like if i quickly volunteered up my wallet and phone as he came by he probably wouldn't inspect my pockets closely. however, if he did want the lump in my front pocket that (unbeknownst to him) is my CCW then... i'd have to make a really quick decision.

There does come the point of no return. If you are in fear of your life or your wifes life then you have to make the call. O.C spray might help you get to your gun in this situation, but if he is coming for you and there are multiple thugs, I think I might pull it out of my pocket and use it.

 

[Jim Macklin]

I like the two wallet idea, just put some false cards in it, maybe even the address of a police station.:tongue:

But you don't want to give up your weapon or your ID, they will come and rob you. And since you're armed you want to keep the CCW/CCH in your possession.

These people rob because the place has $1 more than they have. They shoot into the ceiling because they don't want to kill anybody, they are terrorists who rely on fear.

Massod Ayoob says he carries a cheap money clip with $5 [5 bills] to throw to any street robber, cheaper than a lawyer and if he is forced to shoot he can show he tried to cooperate.:duh:

I switched my wallet to my strong side, so I could put the decoy back in my weak side. Just flip the wallet on the floor, my free hand could be doing something else.
I grade school if a bully tried to start a fight I usually tossed by notebook [the old style zippered] to them, they always caught it with both hands. It is a great distraction and keeps their hands busy.

 

[Hopyard]

I think you are right. Offer up the wallet and iPhone. Maybe hand them over in a way that directs their attention away from your rt front pocket; they wanted out fast too, and likely weren't going to take a good look.

Unfortunately, sometimes things get unavoidable. The big question is not whether or not you might have been forced to pull your gun, but could you do it fast enough and not harm anyone else who was an innocent by-stander.

Here's a good situation where OC and H2H training might have worked to buy a second or two; or might have gotten you killed just as easily before you got your gun into play.

This is much like the laundromat scene we talked about, except there are two BGs

Same dilemma. Same miserable no-choice-options.

If ever caught these two idiots just turned whatever small change they got into a very long sentence. And sooner or later they will get caught; if not for this something else, and they will stupidly confess to this one too because they are idiots.

 

[Adkjoe]

Pulp fiction...remember when the diner gets robbed and they are demanding wallets :smile: Samuel Jackson is the man....

 

[DPAZ]

+1 on Samuel Jackson. Gonna watch it again tonight.

 

[Adkjoe]

he was bad ass in that diner situation, even though it would never go down like that I can still dream

 

[Snowman23]

Yeah...but Eddie Murphy and Arsenio Hall took him out with a broomstick and disarmed him in Coming to America.

I really like the 2 wallet idea. I like my tuckable holster for this reason as well. It's not in a pocket that might show that I have more than just a wallet & phone.

 

[Janq]

This to me, as hypothesized, is my nightmare scenario.

Being caught as along with my family in an air space where removing (EXIT!) or even concealing them is not possible.

I always carry a knife on my person. Always.
Typically I carry OC/CS too. Neither would be any good to me under this specific scenario.
I could give a care about the plastic in my wallet.

I'm already mentally prepared to toss off my knife as a perceptual 'give' toward the BG(s).
While they focus on that and assume I'm de-clawed I'd be actively planning a situational flank and attack manner of 'defense'.

Gun boy gets it first and final, with a controlled pair.
Followed immediately with at least one round to his secondary.
All the while I would choose to _leave_ my family as in soft shield mode to MOVE and fire while on the hoof as _away_ from them to draw attention and their fire (!) toward me.
Staying pat and engaging into a fire fight with my family and others behind me makes no tactical sense as I am not bullet resistant and very likely they are going to be a poor shot(s).

I'm no Sam Jackson and my wallet says 'dad'.

- Janq

 

[kbizzle]

thanks for all the replies and for reminding me how bada$$ samuel l. jackson is. i really do appreciate it. glad to see i'm thinking along the same lines as most of you. i guess this scenario highlights one potential issue with pocket carrying.

i'm off to search for the laundromat thread Hopyard mentioned.

 

[OldVet]

Tough call that has to be made in seconds. Is their intent just to rob and leave, or is it to rob and leave no witnesses? Scenerio 1: give what they want and let them go. They don't want to hang around. Scenerio 2: this is definitely when the CW is called for. There was the story of the retired Marine here in Florida who did just that, gave up his wallet, etc. But when he was ordered into the back room, he knew it was time to react with deadly force and did so. If you think they're going to kill you anyhow, at least go down fighting.

 

[bladenbullet]

This to me, as hypothesized, is my nightmare scenario.

Being caught as along with my family in an air space where removing (EXIT!) or even concealing them is not possible.

I always carry a knife on my person. Always.
Typically I carry OC/CS too. Neither would be any good to me under this specific scenario.
I could give a care about the plastic in my wallet.

I'm already mentally prepared to toss off my knife as a perceptual 'give' toward the BG(s).
While they focus on that and assume I'm de-clawed I'd be actively planning a situational flank and attack manner of 'defense'.

Gun boy gets it first and final, with a controlled pair.
Followed immediately with at least one round to his secondary.
All the while I would choose to _leave_ my family as in soft shield mode to MOVE and fire while on the hoof as _away_ from them to draw attention and their fire (!) toward me.
Staying pat and engaging into a fire fight with my family and others behind me makes no tactical sense as I am not bullet resistant and very likely they are going to be a poor shot(s).

I'm no Sam Jackson and my wallet says 'dad'.

- Janq

my only concern other than the ensuing gun fight that is liable to injure everyone in the store is that although i understand your firing on the move away from your family you must understand that where you originally were is most likely where their first shots will be fired...possibly endangering the family you seek to protect...it isnt an orchestrated and coreographed tv gun battle...its point and shoot survival for them with little care about the things you care most about...they will shoot at anything...you dont really have that choice...

the wife and child have to understand that when its go time it means they need to be as far away from you as possible..and if that means they are moving then they become likely targets also...

this is a crap scenario to be in...i'm guessing a frozen yogurt shop is not a large facility and there isnt a lot of move room...bullets flying are gonna be striking lots of stuff and likely lots of people...giving it up and hoping for a clean theft and run is the best scenario...if it looks like its gonna get ugly be prepared for blood on both sides...

i'm sure this is why its your nightmare scenario...you put a lot of thought into this stuff and i'd guess you realize the consequence...

 

[Adkjoe]

my only concern other than the ensuing gun fight that is liable to injure everyone in the store is that although i understand your firing on the move away from your family you must understand that where you originally were is most likely where their first shots will be fired...possibly endangering the family you seek to protect...it isnt an orchestrated and coreographed tv gun battle...its point and shoot survival for them with little care about the things you care most about...they will shoot at anything...you dont really have that choice...

the wife and child have to understand that when its go time it means they need to be as far away from you as possible..and if that means they are moving then they become likely targets also...

this is a crap scenario to be in...i'm guessing a frozen yogurt shop is not a large facility and there isnt a lot of move room...bullets flying are gonna be striking lots of stuff and likely lots of people...giving it up and hoping for a clean theft and run is the best scenario...if it looks like its gonna get ugly be prepared for blood on both sides...

i'm sure this is why its your nightmare scenario...you put a lot of thought into this stuff and i'd guess you realize the consequence...

X2..I agree!

 

[Tom G]

the two wallet system is not a bad idea, harry. going to the DMV is the worst!

yes, i would give up my wallet and whatever else i had on me to escape unscathed, especially since there were two assailants. i feel like if i quickly volunteered up my wallet and phone as he came by he probably wouldn't inspect my pockets closely. however, if he did want the lump in my front pocket that (unbeknownst to him) is my CCW then... i'd have to make a really quick decision.

The two wallet idea is a good one. If the BG sees your ccw permit he then Knows you have a gun.

 

[jbum]

I refuse to let "MY" family be harmed that is my job..... Janq is right on track JMHO.

 

[Janq]

Blade,

First re-read my posting, in full, as you quoted it and note that I'd stated;

"All the while I would choose to _leave_ my family as in soft shield mode to MOVE and fire while on the hoof as _away_ from them to draw attention and their fire (!) toward me."

Clearly as stated I would _leave_ my family as in no longer place myself at where they are centrally located, as by movement...away from them.
For purpose as I stated to draw their attention toward me. The attention of the BG(s).

Human behavior study very much supports that humans like predatory animals look at/toward where they detect movement. And they act/on against that movement that they detect.

No choreography or TV style gun battle action involved, nor necessary.

As to size of the store most of the shops I've been to that sell yogurt are small with a walk up counter.
I could care less about equipment and property being hit. That's easily repaired or replaced.
As to people this is why it's necessary to MOVE and move with ferocity. As well as timing by surprise. Surprise to them, the BG(s).

Yes hoping for a clean theft would be great.
Also hoping that they don't have desire to go hands on to remove your wallet would be great too.
While at it here to hope that they don't display guns and discharge them into property to get folks attention...

As I'd stated to start in the first sentence;

"This to me, as hypothesized, is my nightmare scenario."

Clearly under such condition hope goes out the window along with the rounds they discharged as at the start of the race.
The consequences are of course dire and that goes without saying.
My priority would be survival. Period. As even under an otherwise hopeless condition.

- Janq

If any of the stores equipment/property happens to take damage as a result of _criminals_ with displayed and prior demonstrated criminal intent happened to be damaged in the process of my attempt to survive. Then well that's what I and the business owner both have insurance for.
As to other persons within the 360 such as on the floor above the ceiling the criminals shot into or beyond walls and windows that the criminals by their choice chose to shoot through, well then that action and result is on them. The criminals who made a choice. A choice to attempt to end my survival, and/or that of my family.
I don't bet my life nor that of my family on hope. As otherwise if I did then I'd not have my knife, can of OC/CS or sidearm on me and the whole discussion would be moot....as we'd hope that 911 and an ambulance arrives in time to stop the rape of my wife or save the lives of me and my family from the wounds we hoped we wouldn't incur as by the hand of these "nightmare scenario" criminals with demonstrated criminal intent.

 

[RETSUPT99]

These scenarios are so difficult to judge unless one is right there.
I hope I never have to make such split-second decisions, but that is why I practice.
Come in and rob the place while shooting into the ceiling? Starting to rob customers?
:wave:I would look for one moment of distraction...the poop would hit the fan. Life is a crapshoot anyway, when it's your time, it's your time, but some dirtbag is NOT going to determine that with out me negotiating a possible change in his/their plans.
Point shooting was invented for just this scenario...:yup:

 

[jbum]

Well said Ret!