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Discussion Starter #1
I looked around and couldn't find a thread on this anywhere here. Your thoughts?

This shooting seems to have both sides up in arms. IMO victim's situational awareness was 0, but the whole thing is frigging unfortunate. Find out who is outside before you open the dang door. It's not about 2A rights to me, but about being responsible.

Video: Phoenix officer shoots, kills Ahwatukee man Ryan Whitaker


A lengthy blow by blow discussing. Click link to read it all.

 

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Someone claiming to be LE at your door and you respond armed and they shoot. SA failure? What do you suggest, telling them to screw off and not answer the door? How LEO jumpiness.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Why would you open the door without knowing who it is in the middle of the night? Bad dudes have the drop on you. 911 will verify if it's cops at your door. Talking through the door is also an option.
 

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Why would you open the door without knowing who it is? Bad dudes have the drop on you. 911 will verify if it's cops at your door. Talking through the door is also an option.
Maybe he can't see through the door.
 
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From what I seen & heard, He need another line of work.. I come from a family of LEO's JMO
H/D
 

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Which means he has no idea what's on the other side right?
Possibly, so what do you suggest for someone with no visual access to outside the door do when LE is at your door? The issue is not that he could not see who was at the door or an SA failure, it was a quick-triggered LEO issue.
 
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My opinion in no way means the guy deserved it. But it is interesting who and how the reactions are to it.
 

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Possibly, so what do you suggest for someone with no visual access to outside the door do when LE is at your door? The issue is not that he could not see who was at the door or an SA failure, it was a quick-triggered LEO issue.
I listed a couple up thread.
 

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Well we have solved the problem in several different ways.

First...Anyone coming to our door needs an appointment, or they just have to enjoy standing out in the heat. Answering the door at 3am is doubly stupid. No appointment? We call 911 with a rifle or shotgun trained on the door.

Second...We got one of those doorbell camera things you can talk to and see people outside with. Even with that, I know enough to always call 911 and verify if officers have been dispatched. Every officer nowadays carries a radio. Dispatch can verify where they are in half a second.

Proper procedures prevent tragedy. It is every bodies' job to be safe, not just the homeowner, or just the officers.
 

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Bingo! @OldChap nails it with calling 911 dispatch to verify that the folks outside your door are in fact the police officers they claim to be, particularly late at night. Inform the folks outside the door what you are doing. Door doesn't open until I know who's out there.
 

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Bingo! @OldChap nails it with calling 911 dispatch to verify that the folks outside your door are in fact the police officers they claim to be, particularly late at night. Inform the folks outside the door what you are doing. Door doesn't open until I know who's out there.
I believe we both said it. You are right, no door opening until I know who is there.
 

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While mistakes were made on both sides, the man with a gun in his hand refusing to obey is symptomatic of many such incidents.
 

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So many ways to avoid this as mentioned .
Video doorbell, call 911 to verify. Peep hole in your door.
Police officers should understand your fear and allow you the time to verify who they are.
They do not want to shoot you and they do not want to be shot.
These no knock warrants scare me the most. My door gets kicked in a people with guns rush in. Hell yea I may start shooting.
 

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While mistakes were made on both sides, the man with a gun in his hand refusing to obey is symptomatic of many such incidents.
Why do you say he refused to obey? Three-four seconds is an awful short refusal time. It takes me longer than that to figure what day it is or where I am.
 

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So many ways to avoid this as mentioned .
Video doorbell, call 911 to verify. Peep hole in your door.
Police officers should understand your fear and allow you the time to verify who they are.
They do not want to shoot you and they do not want to be shot.
These no knock warrants scare me the most. My door gets kicked in a people with guns rush in. Hell yea I may start shooting.
This was an apartment. He cant just put a peephole in the door. Maybe he has one but couldn't see the officers out of it? I dont think Ive ever had an apartment with a doorbell.

Why is it on the homeowner to spend his money to be able to do everything possible to not scare the cops that he gave no reason to need to be there, but the cops continue to get a pass for ignoring normal human behaviors?
 
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This was an apartment. He cant just put a peephole in the door. Maybe he has one but couldn't see the officers out of it? I dont think Ive ever had an apartment with a doorbell.

Why is it on the homeowner to spend his money to be able to do everything possible to not scare the cops that he gave no reason to need to be there, but the cops continue to get a pass for ignoring normal human behaviors?
Not giving the cops a pass. Just saying what i would do. I am responsible for my own safety. These are some of the things I would do to be certain who is on the other end of the door. In an apartment you can still call 911 if you can't see to verify who it is. That is something I could do. As I stated any cop worth his salt would give you the time to do that.
 
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