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Tangle, thank you!

Hello Everyone. This is my first post here and I am also new to the world of guns. I just got my FID card and hand gun permits. So far I’ve taken two self-defense courses, both taught by an NRA certified instructor who also trains police officers. As a quick introduction, I live in central NJ and am in the investment management business. So I don’t come from a law enforcement background.

First of all, I wanted to thank Tangle for his write-up on the different action types. Tangle, it is obvious that you thought about the topic for a long time. I thought your post was thoughtful, articulate and well-written. Your explanation of the different action types and the pros and cons of each were clear; it is probably one of the best posts I’ve read on the internet so thank you for writing it. I don’t know what “sticky” actually means when it refers to posts but it certainly “stuck’’ in my mind.

I liked your post so much that I was inspired to join this forum. In fact, I read the whole thread several times to fully understand the topic. Before reading your post I was ready to buy a DA/SA gun but now I am leaning towards the DAO and DAK. My gun instructor however is convinced the DA/SA is the way to go. I have several questions which I want to ask everyone and will post at the end of my ramblings.

My purpose in taking the gun courses was to educate myself about guns, to learn safe gun handling procedures, and to train myself in shooting a gun (reasonably) accurately. The primary purpose in getting a handgun is for home self-defense (HSD). After I saw the rioting and looting in Greece, Italy, Spain, France and the UK last year, I figured I needed to learn how to handle a gun safely. Since I believe the rioting and looting will, unfortunately, come to the U.S. in several years, I wanted to be prepared. Furthermore, after renting and shooting guns at the target range, I have become a “gun enthusiast” and now have a new and fun hobby! http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/images/smilies/vol_1/banana.gif

After a lot of exhaustive research on the internet, gun manufacturer’s websites and shooting different 9mm guns (Glock 19 Gen4, Beretta 92FS, Ruger SR9c, HK P30, HK P2000 v3, HK P2000sk and Sig P226 Enhanced Elite with SRT) I have decided to get a Sig gun because I really enjoyed shooting my friend’s Sig P226 Elite; it was sweet! The Short Reset Trigger scares the daylights out of me though because after taking the first DA shot, I inadvertently let loose two more shots down range in quick succession. I’ve decided to get the Sig P229 and a Sig P250 2SUM, both in 9mm. I realize the P250 is DAO with a stated trigger pull weight of 6 lbs. and I am OK with it.

So here are my questions:

1) Should I get the P229 in DA/SA with stated trigger pull weights of 10/4.4 lbs. or in DAK with 6.5/8.5 pounds? According to some folks the real trigger pull weights on the DAK is 7.5/9.5 pounds. Does an increase of a pound in pull weight matter? Are the DA/SA pull weights of really 10/4.4 lbs.? http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/images/smilies/vol_1/confused.gif

2) Since I will be practicing with the P229 at the shooting range and since I really like the 4.4 pounds SA trigger, I am tempted to stick with the DA/SA. I figure 99.9% of my time with the P229 will be at the shooting range and maybe 0.1% of the time in a HSD situation (although a very critical time). So my thought is if I am in a Home Self Defense situation, why not rack the slide for the first shot so the P229 is in SA mode which is the mode I would have practiced the most? I am sure there is a flaw in my thinking. Please let me know what that is. Thank you! (I realize that by going into SA mode I’ve disabled the safety feature of the DA/SA gun.)


3) For the Sig P250, the stated trigger pull weight is 6 pounds. Is that correct or is it higher? Or does it not matter?

4) I realize that a DAO or a DAK trigger have long pulls. Since I haven’t had enough practice and experience, how long is long? I’ve seen some people describe it as loooooooong. What does that mean? One of my biggest worries is that I might accidentally shoot a family member in a “false” HSD situation (especially with the adrenaline going strong). So a double action pull would give me an extra second (?) to reconsider before pulling the trigger. I would not have that second with a SA.

The first three questions have to do with being proficient in using a certain type of action type. Question 4 is about safety. For me the safety issue trumps the action type question so I am leaning towards the DAK. What do you guys think?

Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts. http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/images/smilies/vol_1/smile2.gif
 

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First let me congratulate you on your decision to get and learn to use a handgun - you've certainly taken the right approach.

Then, I apologize for being so slow to respond - the last three or so weeks have been really busy for me.

BlueHawk76 said:
...So here are my questions:
1) Should I get the P229 in DA/SA with stated trigger pull weights of 10/4.4 lbs. or in DAK with 6.5/8.5 pounds? According to some folks the real trigger pull weights on the DAK is 7.5/9.5 pounds. Does an increase of a pound in pull weight matter? Are the DA/SA pull weights of really 10/4.4 lbs.? http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/...1/confused.gif
The Sig P226 Elite is an excellent gun; I have a Sig P226 Enhanced Elite. The Enhanced just means it has the newer style grip.

The DA/SA first: There some serious problems with the DA/SA, one is the long, heavy first shot (DA), and two, the discipline required to train with the DA, and three the elevated sensitivity of the SA trigger in stressful conditions.

Let's start with the trigger weight: My Elite measures right at 11 lbs on my Lyman Digital trigger pull scale. That's about 60% heavier than my DAK triggers (about 7 lbs) and very nearly the same pull distance as a like the DAK and DAO of the P250 (about 7.5 lbs). Some time back, I measured the pull length and reset length of the DAK and P250. They are so close I could not measure the difference. That surprises a lot of people because there is a general misconception that the P250 has the long pull and reset - it is identical to the DAK in the light, long mode.

While one can master the DA/SA it takes both discipline and practice, more so than with other trigger systems. I see time and time again people at the range shooting a DA/SA by loading a mag, racking the slide and shooting in SA only to slide lock and the repeat the same mistake over and over. The mistake is not shooting about a third of the total number of shots fired in the DA mode. The 'third' comes from the stat that says the average civilian gunfight is about 2 - 3 rounds. While we don't want to bet our life on that, it still says that if I have to shoot three shots, the first is going to be a DA shot and the next two SA. Hence, based on that, we need to shoot about a third of our shots DA. I can't make myself do that! I, like the vast majority, like that single action trigger and the results I get with it. The DA/SA takes time and commitment to become proficient with it.

You pointed out one other issue, remember the premature firing with the SRT trigger system? That's happened to me too, and I shoot a LOT! I shot over 12,000 rounds last year and am up to 5900 this year with another hundred or so in the works today.

The third issue with a DA/SA is the decock. I've seen DA/SAs holstered with the hammer cocked. I won't go so far to say that that's unsafe, the hammer still can't fall until the trigger is pulled, but that same issue applies to a SD shooting. Say we've shot a couple of shots in a justified SD. What condition are we in? Have we been shot as well? Are we adrenaline pumped? Scared? And there we stand with our finger on a 4.5 lb trigger with our brain in a mode it has never experienced before. Are we going to remember to take our finger off the trigger? Are we going to remember to decock?

OTOH, we hear of very, very few issues with a DAO revolver. The issues we hear about with revolvers are the DA revolvers and practically every unintentional incident has occurred in the SA mode. The DAK and the P250 DAO are very revolver like. The cocked DA/SA is very SA revolver-like.

BlueHawk76 said:
...2) Since I will be practicing with the P229 at the shooting range and since I really like the 4.4 pounds SA trigger, I am tempted to stick with the DA/SA. I figure 99.9% of my time with the P229 will be at the shooting range and maybe 0.1% of the time in a HSD situation (although a very critical time). So my thought is if I am in a Home Self Defense situation, why not rack the slide for the first shot so the P229 is in SA mode which is the mode I would have practiced the most? I am sure there is a flaw in my thinking. Please let me know what that is. Thank you! (I realize that by going into SA mode I’ve disabled the safety feature of the DA/SA gun.)
I wouldn't go so far as a flaw, but there we are in that high stress situation with a very short, light SA trigger. Trainers will tell you how frequently in force on force training they have to remind experienced, trained personnel to take their finger off the trigger. Ernst Langdon once told me this: "Under stress, fingers migrate to the trigger - they just do." There have been any number of training situations where, after the drill, they ask the person if they had their finger on the trigger and the person says they definitely did not and were conscious that they did not. Then they look at the video and their finger was on the trigger practically the whole time! Talk about embarassed!

BlueHawk76 said:
3) For the Sig P250, the stated trigger pull weight is 6 pounds. Is that correct or is it higher? Or does it not matter?
My P250 measures right at 7.25 lbs but it is so smooth and consistent that it feels much lighter. That's probably about what the DA pull on a revolver is. In fact, the DA on a revolver may be a bit heavier.

What most people talk about is the long pull. Well, it is long compared to SAs and Glock and M&P type actions, but as I've said previously, it's the same pull and distance as a DAK. BTW, the FAM (Federal Air Marshals) used P229 DAKs in .357 sig for a long time - may still be using them.

BlueHawk76 said:
...4) I realize that a DAO or a DAK trigger have long pulls. Since I haven’t had enough practice and experience, how long is long? I’ve seen some people describe it as loooooooong. What does that mean? One of my biggest worries is that I might accidentally shoot a family member in a “false” HSD situation (especially with the adrenaline going strong). So a double action pull would give me an extra second (?) to reconsider before pulling the trigger. I would not have that second with a SA.
I'm not sure what they mean. I've heard them praise the DAK and criticize the P250 trigger pull which we know is identical in pull and weight. The DAK and P250 are essentially the same pull length and reset as a revolver, but both have slightly lighter pulls than revolvers.

As for safety, I'll tell you what Ernst Langdon told me about that. He had access to a bunch of stuff we don't have. He said a study clearly showed that long trigger pulls were far more significant than trigger pull weight for preventing an unintentional discharge under stress.

BlueHawk76 said:
...The first three questions have to do with being proficient in using a certain type of action type. Question 4 is about safety. For me the safety issue trumps the action type question so I am leaning towards the DAK. What do you guys think?
I think you're right on. I know some will disagree with that, and you'll hear the brain is the only safety you need, but history simply doesn't support that simple-minded cliche. If the brain is such a good safety, how come we see so many auto, shop, hobbly, sports, etc. accidents? Brains fail, especially under stress. I've seen Golden Glove boxers in big matches get so stressed that they throw up. So much for the brain controlling the situation.

Still the brain is our primary safety, but because we've seen so many brain failures over the years, it doesn't hurt to have some backup for the times the brain goes astray.

Having said all that, I carry a Glock 17 gen 4 with Ghost Rocket connector in it. The Glock is a DAO to a degree, but it lacks the trigger pull length to provide the backup a long pull DAO does. Remember, pull length is more significant than trigger weight - the Glock has a relatively short trigger pull. Even the P30 in SA has a long reset to give a longer trigger pull. But, I do shoot/train a lot. I just hope it's enough so that I shoot and hit what I need to when I need to and don't shoot when I don't intend to.

Lastly (about time huh!) if you go with the P250, you may not find 'accessories' quite as readily available. You'll have a harder time finding 'off the shelf' holsters, but most of the name brand custom holster manufacturers do make holsters for the P250.

The P250 sights are another consideration. The rear sight is quite unique and may be harder to find sights to fit it.
 

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Thank you so much for such a long and detailed response. So to sum up, it looks like the DAK and DAO is the way to go especially from a safety and proficiency perspective. I have a few follow up questions.

1) I've heard that with the Sig P250 you feel much more of the recoil because of the polymer frame (as opposed to the metal frames on the other Sigs) and the lightness of the gun (around 25 ounces). Is that true? The problem is I can't rent this gun and feel the recoil myself. I would be buying blind.

2) All of the gun sales people I talk to don't understand why I want the DAK trigger since I am not a LEO. One person even said that they don't make the Sig P229 in DAK anymore. Is that true?

3) I am sorry but I didn't get what you meant about the P250 sights. If it comes with rear sights, why would I want another? Is the rear sight not adequate? Also, I don't plan to carry (currently) so a proper fitting holster would not be a consideration.

Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Thank you so much for such a long and detailed response. So to sum up, it looks like the DAK and DAO is the way to go especially from a safety and proficiency perspective. I have a few follow up questions.

1) I've heard that with the Sig P250 you feel much more of the recoil because of the polymer frame (as opposed to the metal frames on the other Sigs) and the lightness of the gun (around 25 ounces). Is that true? The problem is I can't rent this gun and feel the recoil myself. I would be buying blind.
A Sig P229 weighs 32 oz; a P250 weighs 25 oz. That is a significant difference, but I don't believe it manifests itself that much in shooting. For example, here are the targets I shot today with my P250fs at various ranges. BTW, I shot my G34 with a Ghost Rocket connector and didn't shoot it this well or fast. I'm not knocking Glocks at all, just stating what I did today:

1- Not sure what happened on the center. That's 5 shots each at 3, 5, 7, 10, and 15 yds. The four off to the side were the 15 yard shots - nice group, just off to the side.

2- The head shot is 25 rapid fire, not really blazing, but not slow either, at 7 yards.

3- The neck shots are 25 rapid fire at 7 yds.


In the following pic,
1- Same as 1 above but you can see I corrected the 'left' issue at 15 yds, notice all but one shot is in the X ring, maybe that was bad ammo??? :redface: :tongue:

2- Head and neck shots are 25 rapid fire shots on each dot at 7 yds

3- the chest shots are 25 rapid fire shots at 10 yds



I'm not saying everyone can shoot the P250 like that, some might be better.............thinking..........well that might be a bit of a stretch....:tongue:..........some might not shoot the P250 as well, but the gun is a shooter!

What's not evident in the pics is how easy it was.

...2) All of the gun sales people I talk to don't understand why I want the DAK trigger since I am not a LEO. One person even said that they don't make the Sig P229 in DAK anymore. Is that true?
Well, the P229 is still on the Sig website, and the FAM are still using the DAK trigger. Bud's Gun Shop still lists them, my local gun shop says you can order any P series with a DAK or DA/SA trigger.

Gun sales people don't understand a lot of stuff - no offense to those that do know their business, but a lot don't.

...3) I am sorry but I didn't get what you meant about the P250 sights. If it comes with rear sights, why would I want another? Is the rear sight not adequate? Also, I don't plan to carry (currently) so a proper fitting holster would not be a consideration.
Some people have 'favorite' sights they like to install on their guns; e.g. I like Heinie two dot sights.

The P250 does come with good sights and usually night sights, so that really isn't an issue unless you want some special kind of sight.

I'm pretty happy with the stock sig night sights that come with them.

The P229/6 series costs significantly more than a P250, and some will say you get what you pay for, but then Glocks cost significantly less than the P229/6 series as well. I like the P250 trigger better than the DAK, but that's just me personally.
 
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Tangle, thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly and with pictures too. Looks like you had a lot of fun at the gun range today!:danceban: You must be retired to be able to take time off on a weekday. Your groupings are awesome.:35: I will have to show you mine after a year or so (when I can actually shoot some decent groupings) and after I figure out how to upload pictures.

What I didn't mention before in my postings is that I am considering buying 3 guns. Based on our conversation so far I am leaning towards the following ones: 1) Sig P229 with night sights in DAK 2) Sig P250 2Sum with night sights and 3) Sig P239 with night sights in DAK. Basically what I needed to figure out was: should I choose DAK over DA/SA? and is the recoil on the P250 manageable? It seems that the answer to both questions is yes. You've giving me the confidence to proceed forward with the purchases. The difficulty in buying a gun is that one can't try it out beforehand in many cases so you are buying blind (so to speak). I am counting on Sig's quality reputation that the P229 and P239 will be just as good as the P226 I shot.

I will read the other postings on this forum but won't be able to contribute much because of my inexperience. If anyone has questions about investing , on the other hand, those I can answer (but this isn't the forum for it though!).:rolleyes:

Take care.:smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Not retired - off for the summer. I teach electrical/electronic engineering technology at a community college, but yes, I had a good time at the range!

Opinions about guns go all over the place. Yesterday, I would have been pushing the Sig P229 or a Glock 17 or 19. Today, after what I was able to do at the range with the P250, I'm carrying my P250 now and just ordered a Kramer Vertical Scabbard (that's what Kramer calls a holster) in horsehide for it. I'm already seriously thinking about a P250 compact.

But, while I'm happy as can be with the P250, some really dislike it - they just can't get past the DAO trigger. I guess what I'm saying is no matter how much I like a P250, it doesn't mean you will. I think you will. I know a lot of first time buyers that have been really pleased with it.

Moving on, I should point this out about the P250: you can do all kinds of things with it. I bought a full size frame for $40 - no transfer required because on the trigger group is a 'gun', not the frame. I cut the dust cover back to the compact frame size, slid on a compact slide and had a 'commander' sized P250 - for $40! A full size, 17 round capacity frame with a compact length.

Many have cut a compact frame down to subcompact size and put the subcompact slide on it. The subcompact frame doesn't have the rails, so by cutting down the compact frame which does have the rails, they construct a subcompact length with rails and a compact capacity.

You can put a full size slide on a compact frame; a compact slide on a subcompact frame. Guys have painted them with Duracoat in all kinds of colors and patterns. The reason they are so bold, is if they completely ruin the frame, they're only out $40 and some USPS postage.
 

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Not retired - off for the summer. I teach electrical/electronic engineering technology at a community college, but yes, I had a good time at the range!

But, while I'm happy as can be with the P250, some really dislike it - they just can't get past the DAO trigger. I guess what I'm saying is no matter how much I like a P250, it doesn't mean you will. I think you will. I know a lot of first time buyers that have been really pleased with it.
My father was a math professor at a state college in upstate New York so I know all about being off for the summer. He and I worked on our rental houses during the summers when the students were gone.

I stopped by a gun store today and got a chance to hold and dry fire a P250 compact. It felt really good in my hands. It was just the right size and weight. The grip fit perfectly. I started to rethink whether I should get the P250 2SUM (full size and subcompact) or the just the compact! I also dry fired the pistol and I liked the 7 lb DAO trigger. The long pull didn't seem so long at all.:smile: But I now have a problem: NJ allows 15 or fewer capacity mags and the mag for the full size is 17 rounds! So I may well have to get the compact size.

The sales guy also showed me a Sig P225 9mm made in Germany. I didn't know about the P225 but it fit my hand well and weighed just right too. Later I did some searches on the internet to find out more about this gun. It seems like it was the precursor to the P228 and the P229. I will stick to the P229. I dry fired several Sigs with the DA/SA and I don't like that first 11 lb pull at all after "shooting" the DAO on the P250.

The gun shops do not carry the Sigs in DAK. I have to order them and then wait 6 weeks! Bummer.:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #48
...I stopped by a gun store today and got a chance to hold and dry fire a P250 compact. It felt really good in my hands. It was just the right size and weight. The grip fit perfectly. I started to rethink whether I should get the P250 2SUM (full size and subcompact) or the just the compact!
It's a great gun.
...I also dry fired the pistol and I liked the 7 lb DAO trigger.
It doesn't feel like 7 lbs does it?! And, IIRC correctly when I was more into the P250, there are now some things you can do to lighten the trigger to about 6 lbs.
...The long pull didn't seem so long at all.:smile:
It doesn't bother me in the least - I like it.

...But I now have a problem: NJ allows 15 or fewer capacity mags and the mag for the full size is 17 rounds! So I may well have to get the compact size.
Don't forget you can put a full size slide and barrel on a compact frame with zero mods. So if you get a compact, you have that option.

...I dry fired several Sigs with the DA/SA and I don't like that first 11 lb pull at all after "shooting" the DAO on the P250.
Exactly!

...The gun shops do not carry the Sigs in DAK. I have to order them and then wait 6 weeks! Bummer.:mad:
Well bummer kind of, I know what you mean, but try to order a Kimber that's not in stock and they'll tell you 9 to 12 months.

S&W is $300 million behind in production - that explains why I couldn't find any M&Ps in stock locally.
 

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Kahr?

So, Kahr calls their "Trigger cocking DAO". It's definitely not DAO, as the slide must "pre-cock" before the striker can be released by pulling the trigger... is this similar to the Glock, or the XD's USA mechansims?
 

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So, Kahr calls their "Trigger cocking DAO". It's definitely not DAO, as the slide must "pre-cock" before the striker can be released by pulling the trigger... is this similar to the Glock, or the XD's USA mechansims?
I'm a new gun owner. I recently bought a Taurus TCP (738). It seems to be a similar "Trigger (semi-)cocking DAO". The hammer appears to be semi-cocked by racking the slide. I guess it is still considered DA because pulling the trigger - (1) completes the cocking of the hammer and (2) releases the hammer.

maybe?
 

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I never have been comfortable with cocked & locked. I love sigs 226 220 but I find all metal guns to heavy for all day carry. I love H&K USP. In summer I smart carry, I like decocked with safety. I like a long trigger pull on the first shot. I also love a short reset. The reason for different actions, individuals can find what they are comfortable with.
 

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Hey OP you spelled TANGLE El Wrongo:blink: It's TANGO, TANGLE!!!!!

Just blowin' your kilt up TANGO:blink:

HUA
 

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As far as I know the kahr trigger system functions a lot like a glock. The difference lies in their cam that is used to pull the striker back and eventually release to induce primer ignition. This differs from the the glock trigger bar and disconnector combo used to accomplish the same task. Simply put, same theory (slightly) different execution. The kahr triggers are some of the smoothest DAO systems ever designed. It is largely due to some great engineering on their part. I personally love the feel of the kahr system and see a lot of promise in the design. Only time will reveal the truth as to the reliability and flexibility of the cam system. The glock trigger on the other hand seems to be a simpler design lending itself to great reliability as well as modification. Most people will agree that not everyone likes the same trigger config. and the glock design allows a wide spectrum of weights and profiles to be applied. This lets the shooter tune the gun to help them shoot at their best no matter what config that may be. I would like to see this same flexibility implemented in the kahr platform. I belive that flexibility would make the kahr cam setup one of the best personal defense handgun options. I personally carry a glock 26 or 17. I have installed Ghost Inc's Evo Elite connectors in both. I also replaced some of the springs using their spring kits. I still run the stock striker spring as that is what produced the best results on paper. Their "target" spring included in the kit is fun for range days but simply does not provide ME with the amount of feedback I wanted out of the glock trigger. I will say that this setup makes for a simple to manipulate (the most simple I've found) system while still providing the necessary level of safety. The stock glock configuration does the same thing and does it just fine but with the addition of these small mods it also helps me, the operator, to achieve extremely accurate shot placement through smooth trigger travel and uniform resistance throughout the trigger stroke. This modification will also provide the user with little to no overtravel after the shot breaks. This lack of excess movement allows the trigger to break and denies the shooter from making unwanted aiming inputs as a result of applying pressure to a firm trigger to break the shot. Consequently the shooter experiences a sudden drop in trigger tension that causes unwanted movement after the shot is fired. I have found this approach on trigger manipulation yields outstanding results in both accuracy and speed. Like I said before, everyone is different, but after taking in all the available designs along with their accompanying operational methodology I have found the glock "style" to be the most efficient of all the platforms. I have found that coupled with the right philosophies on deployment and operation of this system, the operator is able to achieve the maximum level of efficiency and is able to engage a hostile target as quickly as possible while requiring the least effort (both physically and mentally).
 

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I have installed Ghost Inc's Evo Elite connectors in both. I also replaced some of the springs using their spring kits. I still run the stock striker spring as that is what produced the best results on paper. Their "target" spring included in the kit is fun for range days but simply does not provide ME with the amount of feedback I wanted out of the glock trigger. I will say that this setup makes for a simple to manipulate (the most simple I've found) system while still providing the necessary level of safety.
Some like the NY-1 8 lb. spring with the Ghost 3.5 lb., or Glock "-", or Ranger, dis-connector. It supposedly gives even pressure through its 5.5 lbs. pull.

To me, the weight doesn't feel much different than the factory setup; but overall the trigger is less mushy, and the most noticeable difference is that [the] reset is much crisper.
Glock 19 modifications - disconnector advice please [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=510632

http://www.glockmeister.com/EvaluationofTriggerPulls.asp *****
 

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Great write-up! Very good explanation of each...a good one to print out and have handy when the uninformed ask if your gun, a DW Custom 1911, came with a Safe Action Trigger, LOL!!

(I don't, however, agree with the SA/DA criticisms; I love my FNX which is as the USP you described except with a pretty damn good DA action. I have run about 300 rounds through it in DA only -- Shoot, decock, shoot, decock, repeat 298 more times -- so I also make the training "real")

Thanks for the OP!

EDIT: missed the original dates...sorry for raising the dead.
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Thanks, it's already stuck this time though.
I think I know all the meanings except for one and that's DAK. I gots no ideer what DAK stands for?:pat::doh::blink:

Who besides me noticed this thread started out nearly 4 years ago?
 

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I think I know all the meanings except for one and that's DAK. I gots no ideer what DAK stands for?:pat::doh::blink:

Who besides me noticed this thread started out nearly 4 years ago?
For some reason, I noticed. DAK = Dual Action Kellerman. There are some pretty good YouTube videos explaining it.


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I think I know all the meanings except for one and that's DAK. I gots no ideer what DAK stands for?:pat::doh::blink:

Who besides me noticed this thread started out nearly 4 years ago?
For some reason, I noticed. DAK = Dual Action Kellerman. There are some pretty good YouTube videos explaining it.


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The Sig Double Action Kellerman trigger is a twist on a standard DAO. When the slide is racked, it leaves the hammer in a half-cocked position. If the trigger is fully released, it gives a lighter, but still long first pull. After firing, the trigger will reset about halfway back, and that pull is a little heavier, but much shorter and still super smooth. I'm just learning the DAK trigger system on a P226 I just picked up. It seems to be the trigger of choice for most PD's that issue Sigs these days. I like the trigger enough that I bought a .22 conversion kit for it so I can get some serious practice on it.


First pic is the normal trigger position, second is the shorter reset position.
 
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