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Discussion Starter #1
Warning - this is graphic - and actually quite an old report.

Thing is - here is a cop who thru (seemingly) a total reluctance to act - paid with his life. I felt sick watching it as it all seemed so avoidable. Stole this from a post on THR but thought you oughta see it.

I reckon as we mostly know - if push comes to shove - procrastination can be fatal.


The demise of a hesitant LEO
 

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That is a bad situation. It shouldn't have gone that way. So many bad decisions or lack of by this officer. Damn shame.
 

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First---I greve for the LEO's family. He didn't have to die. He died as a direct result of improper training and/or stupidity. From the time the LEO first saw the weapon how long was it to his(the LEO's) first shot?? How many times did the LEO say"sir,drop the weapon--put the weapon down" ?? Did the LEO have access to a long arm(shotgun,carbine) ?? This tape(sadly) should be used as a training tool for other LEO's. Anybody that ,when stopped by a LEO,comes up with a weapon,deserves to die. Right there,right then. These people get paid to protect ME ??? This is just another example of why I say," stay off my property,stay outta my house,keep outta my way,I will do what needs to be done to protect myself and my family and you can rest assured that your dispatcher will be the first that I call after the problem is solved. Then you can come fill out your report. -----------
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Bud - this was a piece quoted about this incident -
THE INCIDENT
Deputy Kyle Dinkheller, Laurens County, GA, was minutes from being off duty when he
encountered a speeding pickup truck going 98 mph. The deputy was an ICE (Interstate
Criminal Enforcement) officer that dealt with traffic infractions, speeding and the occasional
drug bust. This was a low risk or unknown risk stop for speeding. He radioed in the speeding
infraction, made a U-turn in the median and pursued the vehicle.
The driver, Andrew Brannan, stopped his vehicle, exited and started a crazy, dancing jig in
the middle of the road while swearing at the officer and shouting ?I?m a god-damned
Vietnam vet.? At first, he ignored Dinkheller?s commands to step towards the deputy, which
always began with `Sir?.
When he finally complied, he attacked the deputy and a scuffle ensued. The deputy
implemented the use of his asp and ordered Brannan to `get back?. This procedure was
repeated, but after what appeared to be a second scuffle, the suspect returned to his vehicle
and retrieved a M-I Carbine from under the seat. The first shots were fired nearly 50 seconds
after Brannan returned to his vehicle despite the deputy?s commands
Brannan ignored the repeated commands to put the gun down and Deputy Dinkheller
apparently fired the first shot. Brannan, a Vietnam veteran, advanced firing on the deputy.
Dinkheller returned fire, but succeeded only in breaking a window in the driver?s side of the
pickup and wounding Brannan in the stomach. Using `suppressive fire?, Brannan
systematically, methodically shot Dinkheller in the arms, legs, exposed areas that would not
be covered had Dinkheller been wearing a bulletproof vest, slowly executing him. Reloading
his weapon Brannan continued firing with the final death shot to Dinkheller?s right eye.

LESSONS LEARNED
· Gain control of the situation
· Call your partner and/or call for backup
· Maintain control of the situation
· Make verbal commands clear to the subject
· Go one level higher than your attacker
· If subject lays hands on you, take him/her down
· Use whatever tools are necessary
· Never let subject return to his/her vehicle
· Keep the subject away from the vehicle and, if necessary, go to the vehicle yourself
· Determine when lethal force is justified; then, use it if called for
· Go by the book and lean on training as safeguards against liability issues
· Develop a scenario, a plan for any given situation.
· Be mentally and physically prepared to be a professional
· The issue of liability is not worth your life
 

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Uh, Wow. Amazing how long that deputy let that fool hold his life on a string. I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure he woulda been shot LOOONNG before he had a chance to bring the AK to bear.

Just me, but I woulda been more decisive to make sure I got to go home and snuggle up next to my SO's nakedness that very night.
 

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Mindset can set you up. I tried working Corrections, just after I left EMS. Nooooo Waaaay. I would think that this officer, as described was more accustomed to talking folks getting a ticket "down", and helping change flats. I knew I wasn't nearly "kick-ass" enough to stay. Nice guys get dead. Sad, but true...... :frown:
 

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Chris

I saw that Vid already. I really don't need to see it again.
It's already "burned in" up in my brain.
DITTO: You guys above who already commented.
 

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Ugh - I watched it to the point where the murderer drew his weapon, and then I stopped the video. I don't want to see the rest.

I knew of a cop who resisted using his baton to restrain an out-of-control teenager at school. The teenager was HUGE and wrestled the officer. The officer was afraid to respond with more force because of the town it happened in and the fact that the teenager was black - he was afraid the race card would be thrown and he would lose his job. The teen ended up breaking the officer's knee. :grumpy:

I don't know why the officer here did not respond with harsher force sooner. A large part seems to be complacency, but I wonder if part of it was the fear of legal repercussions. Good cops are always in a lose-lose situation it seems - they're "doing too much" or "doing too little," and never "just right." "Mah boy's a good boy. He wouldna shot nobody. Thems cops shouldn't have killed him."
 

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I think part of it is the lack of training for officers. Also , some just can't pull the trigger. Training for PD should be 1 step higher of force than the BG is up to. hence BG has a gun, shoot em. Cops have a dangerous job , and always worry about after the fact.
 

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It was mentioned that this officer had been repremanded for pulling his weapon on another citizen/ suspect recently.

Even if that was the case I still can't imagine not firing immediately when the BG's weapon became visible. Apparently the magazine of the M1 carbine was empty, and was actually loaded by the BG while he stood at his driver's door with the deputy ordering him to put the weapon down.
 

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tanksoldier said:
Apparently the magazine of the M1 carbine was empty, and was actually loaded by the BG while he stood at his driver's door with the deputy ordering him to put the weapon down.
If that is the case, then Double Wow on my part. It was mentioned that the weapon was an AK and I just took it at that. If he watched the BG load it and took no shot, I just don't know how to respond to that. :confused:
 

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I didn't watch the video, from reading comments above the officer was killed by a unstable person. I believe the officer was not agressive enough for the situation or did not "read" the person he stopped. It is troublesome when good people loose their life dealing with scum.
We may never find why the officer hesitated to draw his weapon or at least have his hand on it ready to draw. Its a shame if administrative controls get in the way, I would imagine their union will look into that aspect. I am so sorry for his family and of course for his loss of life.
 

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When I was a Probation Officer, I lost a good friend (Kern County Sheriff Deputy) because he couldn't bring himself to shoot a teenager even tho' the teen was pointing a shotgun at him. This cop-in the video-did not seem to have sufficient training but maybe he just thought he could control the situation by other means. Cannot understand why he didn't blow the guy up when he presented the weapon. Cops are under the microscope as Betty says and it's a shame that the media and the ACLU can indirectly influence situations like these by their endless examination of the criminals "RIGHTS". (Rodney King, etc. ) You point a gun at me, you have the right to be shot. Judge me by 12 if you must, but don't carry me with 6.
 

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Yo Bro!!!

buzzg said:
When I was a Probation Officer, I lost a good friend (Kern County Sheriff Deputy) because he couldn't bring himself to shoot a teenager even tho' the teen was pointing a shotgun at him. This cop-in the video-did not seem to have sufficient training but maybe he just thought he could control the situation by other means. Cannot understand why he didn't blow the guy up when he presented the weapon. Cops are under the microscope as Betty says and it's a shame that the media and the ACLU can indirectly influence situations like these by their endless examination of the criminals "RIGHTS". (Rodney King, etc. ) You point a gun at me, you have the right to be shot. Judge me by 12 if you must, but don't carry me with 6.

HEY! I WAS A PROBATION OFFICER TOO! Well I had a few parolees too. Worked right here on the "mean streets" of Miami, FL in the 1980's. Back then we were classified by Florida law as LEO's, but according to dept policy, we were not allowed to carry firearms. MY bosses saw my credentials as an army infantry captain and NRA Instructor and they allowed me to carry because I had some very violent "clients." So I carried my 1911 IWB all the time. Bosses said if you have to shoot, make it a "good shoot" and we'll back you up. That was cool with me.
 

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Well, I have no idea what cops are gonna do next. If they use their firearms in self-defense, they get investigated up and down and if they don't, they die. And they are screwed too with Less-than-Lethal options like a Taser gun if the suspect has a weak condition and/or doing dope and decides to die, the officers get portrayed as insensitive gun that caused a misguided-yet-innocent freak his life.
 
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