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Discussion Starter #1
Last Saturday night at the local Wal-Mart, a 50 year old man was getting into the car when a 27 year old BG grabbed his shoulder, spun him around, stabbed him in the abdomen, then ordered the wife out of the car. She refused and began to scream for help. The husband then grabbed the thug and began to struggle. Finally, the thug ran off, only to be captured a few minutes later and identified by several eyewitnesses. The husband was airlifted out but will be fine.
Now, if you had been there with your concealed carry weapon, what would you have done?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think I put this in the wrong section, sorry! Should be in scenarios, not training. Can a moderator please move it? Thanks!
Head shot would be appropriate, I think! One person stabbed and another being threatened.
 

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Moved :smile:

Well - first off - the guy was almost certainly in con' white - let's make that clear and that was a pity.

Main concern is, re what we might have done, is - would we/could we, possibly have intervened early enough to avoid the attack and stabbing - I'll guess it went down VERY fast indeed.

I guess too if right nearby then there might have been the possibility of a shot, on basis that a lethal action has occurred and we need to prevent another.

That said - oh boy - this real hard to judge and I doubt many of us could possibly know - unless there - in full yellow and saw it coming or happening. Then? Anybody's guess.

More than glad the guy will recover - it could have been so different.
 

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We meaning the wife and I are very careful going into and leaving WallyWorld or any other store.

As I have posted before we have many thugs who have attacked older people also some young dudes in WalMarts and KMarts.

As and example.a Blk...thug shoplifting at Target when caught pulled a knife and stabed both the securty person and a customer who tried to help. The Blk..thug got away and was never caught. Everyone knifed recovered.

Another example a week later two non-english speaking thugs caught shoplifting at a KMart while being chased out of the store by security another of their buddies in a waiting auto pulled up and someone inside shot the security guy. They made their get away and were not caught and the security guy survived the shooting.

So as I was posting we are always armed and ready for problems. If we are approached I tell who ever is moving toward us to stay put. I always have my small Baton at the ready. Thats my level one.

If they don't stop or if they are non-english speaking types it's on to my level two and out with my carry weapon.

I at first I won't point it at them I just let them notice I have it at my side. So far I have only had to do this twice and they have stood down and just walked away.

But if we are really ever attacked I have told my wife I am going to shoot and thats what I would have done.

While loading stuff into our SUV the wife stands guard as soon as we are loaded we get in lock doors and quickly get moving. If someone trys to carjack us they better shoot me dead quickly.
 

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If shot possible, I'd have to take it
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you, P95Carry, for the move. Sorry, I'm new here! A friend of mine told me he would have shot the guy as he was running away. He doesn't have a gun, much less a concealed carry permit. I tried to show him the error of his ways. All he said was to heck with the legalities, he had stabbed someone! I'm looking for a better class of friends!
 

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I probably would have just shot the knife out of the Bad Guy's hand while he was running away.:biggrin2:
 

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I am begining to rethink my shopping at Wal-mart, or the wife going up there alone. Sheesh.

Anyway, I would like to think I would far more attentive then to allow a BG that close to me in tha parking lot. Especailly after my little Wal-mart 'problem'. I think I would have seen him coming and made eye contact with them, thus pissibly stopping him from advancing because he no longer had the element of surprise. If he did keep advancing, then he would get my standard warning and my .45 drawn on him. Some people say, "How can you just draw on someone, maybe he is a homeless guy just wanting food" etc. Here is my opinion on that: I have a personal space around me. For everyone I don't know, that personal space is about a 10' radius. If my wife or kids are with me, it grows to even more. If I don't ask you to approach me, then don't. I think people need to respect that and in this day and age, don't just walk up to people you don't know without saying something first. Those are the 'rules' of society, IMO. I don't just walk up to strangers and ask them questions, so don't do it to me.

If after all of that, this guy kept advancing with a knife, then yeah, he gets shot.

Also, I would like to think if this guy ordered my wife out of he car in the parking lot, she would get out and run like hell back to the store, not sit there and scream. Say this dude knifes me good and I go down, now he is in the car with my wife. That is a lose-lose situation.

Now, if I saw this as a passer-by, my first thought would be seperation. The BG has a hold of the older man, and has already stabbed him once. I don't think shooting is possible as there is too much risk or striking the man being attacked. Even though the BG has a knife, I would probably use hand-to-hand to get seperation. Best case scenario, this guy sees you coming and lets go and runs to avoid capture. Once he did run, I would not shoot or chase after him. I would tend to the stabbed man and make sure I could provide a good description of the BG. Hopefully, that Wal-mart is like ours and has cameras all over the outside of the building as well.

A crowded Wal-mart parking lot with multiple victims involved does not seem to me like the place I want to be firing off .45 rounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
You're a better man than I, QKShooter! At least a better shot!!!
 

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Just something to think about, but here in Ohio if you come to the aid of someone and it ends up that that person did not have a right to defend themselves then you do not have the right to intervene. And also here in the great state of Ohio if you are the one that initiated the "conflict" then you give up your right to use deadly force in a confrontation. So, if the person you are helping actually started the situation by saying or doing something (How do you know that the older man in this story didn't start something that ended up following him to his car?) and you use deadly force to help him your shooting is not justified.

That may have been overly complicated, but the law itself is nicely vague. Basically I'm saying that when you come to someone else's rescue sometimes it can be difficult to know if you can intervene and whose side you should come in on.
 

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Let's see here young guy with weapon..Old guy no weapon.. I see young guy spin and knife old guy and scream at old guys wife get out of the car.. humm.. grab HK right hand, grab M6X left, slide lock, click to full.. scream at BG put your hands in the air and hit the dirt.. when the BG turns to come at me toggle on M6X place dot center of mass..doubble tap two low and red dot to head one more to assure threat is neautrilized. Call 911 on cell cry into phone with shakey voice yell help I been attacked by a perp after he knifed this poor old defenceless guy, then call acting teacher and thank him.
 

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I would have moved out of the way depending on where his attention was focused. Obviousy from sound of it, he was focused on getting the vehicle. Let him get away from me, then unload on his butt.

I would have shot to stop and kept shooting until I ran out. Simple as that.


If I was going down I'm going down with a hell of a fight. :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
TonyW, the law here in NC is the same. But, I have to agree more with Sheldon J. If I were in the old man's place, I sure hope someone would come to my aid instead of thinking, gee maybe he started it. But, as I said, I understand your point because the law here is the same. But the law is not always justice or the right thing to do.
 

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Mighty HD,

I'm pretty sure I understand what you are saying and would agree with what's probably in your heart, BUT. . .

You should consider replacing the phrase, "shoot to kill," with "shoot to stop," or "shoot to live."

I know, it sounds like a silly word-game, doesn't it?

But I live in the same state you do and should it ever come down to explaining your actions to an LEO or a judge, those two phrases I suggested would do a much better job of keeping you within Florida's legal guide lines.

It has little to do with the reality of the situation, but as usual in this life, perception trumps reality.

mm
 

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I would hope i'd shoot but more importantly is keeping me and mine safe...legally and morally.
shooting in an aid situation is opening that old can-o-worms and WILL more than likely be very costly due to court issues which WILL be forth-coming. sometimes honor overrides legal senses/issues.
as was said in the Ohio law its very touchy if you come into it blind to the BIG picture of why it happened.
thats a tough call.
maybe the "magic gun" syndrome would apply here? merely the sight of a gun would end the attack without shots fired and the good witness kicks in.(?)
and fer sure the last place i wanna be shooting is in a wal-mart parking lot cuz i'm a good shot but maybe not that good. remember the Kehoe brothers here in ohio. some 20+ rounds exchanged between OSP and BG's at almost point blank range with NO injuries!!

and as i recall from my classes, the other witnesses that may not see the stabbing will only be able to tell the cops "i heard screaming then saw this guy pull his gun out and shoot him dead!"
they told us (duty to retreat here) to yell "stop, don't come any closer" repeatedly so witnesses will be on yer side of the story.

oh, and i'm sure the thug was merely an underpriveleged, misunderstood youth.. a "good" kid.
uh huh
 

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Discussion Starter #18
"Shoot to killl"

In my CC class, I used the term shoot to kill once while asking a question and the instructor let me know REAL FAST never to say that!
It's always shoot to stop the threat. He mentioned something about lawyers eating me for breakfast!:rolleyes:
 

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My wife was in Wal-Mart just before Christmas when a "homeless looking" guy started following her around. She didn't have her CCW license at the time.

What does quick-thinking Sandy do?

She went to the lingerie department. :hand10:

Homeless guy disappeared.
 
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