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Discussion Starter #1
Here's the scenario:

You are a divorced father/mother of 3. (Your ex is certifiable). The children are in front of the house playing when you hear a commotion and the middle child runs on screaming she/he's here!!! You know that the ex has no good intentions for the kids. You are armed with only your normal CCW weapon and run out the door. The scene you encounter is as follows: EX 35 yds away speaking to your 5 year old daughter, within 5 ft of a vehicle. EX's lover is in the driver's seat looking nervously at you. You know from previous conversations that if the kids go with the EX then they will come to harm. It's about lunchtime and kids are everywhere on the street. The cops don't really come in as a factor because as far as they are concerned there is nothing they can do. You do however have a clean shot, how do you proceed.

Now, this is the exact situation I was in about 5 months ago. Let me know what you would do in this situation and I will tell you what I did and how it worked out.
 

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cjm - right now I can't see my gun as being a viable option legally. Unless I was in immediate danger from someone else's weapon - how could I justify drawing or using mine?

The mention of harm risk makes a difference but that surely would have to be proveable in order to help sanction your own use of lethal force.

I will chew this one over a bit more. Tricky situation.
 

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Not viable. Remember, unless there is a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily harm, you have no legal standing. You have your gun with you, keep it concealed and walk outside to be close to your kids but not close enough to be easily attacked. Phone in hand andcalling the cops is a good accessory.
 

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"EX is certifiable..." Literally? Drug rehab, dx'd emotional/behavioral disorders, and assuming that you have primary custody, with the EX having minimal or supervised visitation, you've got a free hand. This situation is no different than a stranger "agressively" approaching your child. Strong verbal challenge, present weapon if the child is grabbed- shoot the driver, as he is the "instrument of abduction".

Lot's of details missing. If EX is a screwball, and has personal maintenance/safety issues that can/have been documented, just axe their parental rights. Your kids will be better of not knowing them at all.

Edit to add: re-reading your post, it looks like documentation of the EX's intentions is missing. Start "laying paper". In OK, you can have admissible recorded telephone calls, as long as one of the parties (you) are aware that it is being recorded. Verbal threats- get a restraining order. Start digging. You'll hit lots of dead ends, but scum always leaves something that can be used.
 

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I would try to close the distance while talking . Firearm use is not an option unless in defense of your life or your kids. Not much more ya can do than get to the kids and call the PD.
 

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Yep - I forgot - phone call is a given.
 

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Oh come on what he wants to here is shoot'em both the Ex and the lover.

"YES IM JOKING "
 

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I recall from one of my courses that "stranger kidnapping," that is being snatched by someone unknown to you, was justification for use of deadly force. I'm not sure about this case, though.

When these scenaria are presented I try to come up with a quck answer before reading other posts. My initial reaction was to run, not walk, to the child and separate the child from the ex. After that, it would depend on whether the ex attacked me, but I think this scenario could be resolved without use of deadly force as long as there was no direct attack on me or the child.

I think if the ex intended to kidnap the child, he/she would have jumped out of the vehicle, grabbed the child, jumped back in, and sped away. The fact that he/she is merely talking and has not touched the child would lead me to believe that I could probably intervene without escalating. My guess is that the ex would back off if faced with a facial expression, body language, and voice that indicated that you did not intend to let the child leave the scene without a fight.

Of course, it's always easier to come up with an answer when sitting at a keyboard than when actually facing the situation.

I hope it worked out without any physical or emotional distress for the kids.

SSKC
 

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Miggy said:
Not viable. Remember, unless there is a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily harm, you have no legal standing.
Untrue in some jurisdictions.

I can shoot to stop a felony in progress. No one needs to be threatened.
 

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rfurtkamp, I should have added that it is the standard in Florida and only for the use of deadly force. I stand corrected.

As information, the Florida Statute reads:

776.031 Use of force in defense of others.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
 

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Yell to the kids "I have icecream and the first one inside gets seconds" my kids would have stampeeded so fast all you would see is their shadow still there. While you are heading to the Ex's car use friendly tones, hostile actions begets hostile reactions. Politely warn him the next time he shows he will be arested, and then go get a peace bond on the boy. He has shown no agressive actions so you have no legal reason to pull your gun.
 

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Excellent response Sheldon. Of all the responses so far yours is far and above the best one in my humble opinion.

Good Job!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sorry I let this drop after posting but to fill in the rest of the details.

My ex has NO visitation rights, NO custody legal or physical.
She also is a drug addict and has been convicted of harming the kids in the past.

Would I shoot, not in front of my kids unless no other choice existed (us or them). But I wanted to see if maybe I was just soft.
 

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cjm5874 said:
Sorry I let this drop after posting but to fill in the rest of the details.

My ex has NO visitation rights, NO custody legal or physical.
She also is a drug addict and has been convicted of harming the kids in the past.

Would I shoot, not in front of my kids unless no other choice existed (us or them). But I wanted to see if maybe I was just soft.
Still no reason to shoot, what they did has nothing to do with what they are doing now, I stand by my earler statement. They definatley bear a very close watch but you cannot shoot them for wanting to see their kids, yes they did not follow legal procedures, but that is no reason to excecute someone, and if you shoot that is just what you are doing. Their is obviously a lot of animosity here, get a peace bond aganst them and put them in jail next time they show.
 

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Sheldon J said:
Yell to the kids "I have icecream and the first one inside gets seconds" my kids would have stampeeded so fast all you would see is their shadow still there. While you are heading to the Ex's car use friendly tones, hostile actions begets hostile reactions. Politely warn him the next time he shows he will be arested, and then go get a peace bond on the boy. He has shown no agressive actions so you have no legal reason to pull your gun.

Did someone say ICE CREAM!!!!
 

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cjm5874 said:
Sorry I let this drop after posting but to fill in the rest of the details.

My ex has NO visitation rights, NO custody legal or physical.
She also is a drug addict and has been convicted of harming the kids in the past.

Would I shoot, not in front of my kids unless no other choice existed (us or them). But I wanted to see if maybe I was just soft.
If this is the case, you should have, at that time, immediately gone before a judge, explained the situation and asked for a restraining order that would prevent either of them from getting that close again. If it was 5 months ago, I believe you would be hard pressed to get it now.

With the story as you wrote it, you certainly would not be justified in shooting anyone. If you did, YOU would be the one going to jail and she, or a foster parent, would then raise your kids.....
 

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rocky said:
Did someone say ICE CREAM!!!!
And with Caramel, Hot fudge and Pecans.
 
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