[jdsumner]

Very happy to hear it ended well for him. Didnt end that well for the 2 Subway workers down here who tried to resist armed robbers. One dead, one injured. I guess it depends on how committed the assialant is. I have been taught that you cant outdraw a drawn gun. But, you do what you gotta do.

Dan

 

[chameleon]

Interesting.
I would hope that the Bad Guy got caught. Here he drops his gun, and runs off. That would be some jail time.

The ex-Army guy was lucky.However, if he were armed, like JD said, you can\'t outdraw a drawn gun!

 

[Scott]

Ooops, my bad. At the time we were active duty and he was a Ranger. If I recall a Major at the time.

 

[KC135]

Simple for me, do not even know how to use an ATM. Always manage to plan far enough ahead to avoid learning.

He was lucky, but very quick....action often beats reaction.

 

[APachon]

I am in the same boat as KC135 so to speak. Unarmed at an ATM does not happen for me. Plus I do the ATM thingy Buddy system style.

~A

 

[GoodSamaritan]

I do use the atm from time to time, but I always do it from my car window at our bank. It is well lit and there is noway for someone to approach you without being seen. (assuming you are alert)

 

[Scott]

I\'m with you guys. Avoid ATMs like the plague. The only one I\'ve used is a drive up. It\'s a pretty good setup, but still not ideal. I\'ve used it all of twice. I have only had an ATM card for about 6 months. I used to always cut them up and toss them. However, with Costco using them at their gas pumps, and their gas being a nickle a gallon cheaper, I now have an ATM(debit) card.

 

[clubsoda22]

if he\'s close enough to tap you on the shoulder with his gun, you\'re close enough to disarm him. Take a good class and learn how.

 

[AZJohn]

Use my bank ATM inside the grocery store.......

 

[GoodSamaritan]

I don\'t mean to make an issue of this with you on this Marc, however I seem to notice you tend to mention disarming the BG a lot. If you are very very fast and very very good, you may get away with it. I would tend to use it as a last resort. If you really are good enough to pull this off I salute you!

A few years ago, my sister, who has a terminal case of liberalism, took a 3 day self defense course. Which I think is a great idea, with only one exception. The only problem I had with the course was that when they taught the disarm maneuver, they never specified that it should be used as a last resort. There is a very good chance you will get shot in the process, especially if you haven’t practiced it. She insisted that she could disarm a man with a gun to her head before he could fire a shot. I promptly challenged her to let me try it with a water gun. She quickly backed down. More recently the subject came up again and I challenged her again. She got wet 2 times out of three. I got a very sore finger and she wouldn’t speak to me for a while afterwards. (But it was worth it. LOL)

If people are going to take this kind of training they need to realize it takes practice and that even then there is no guarantee. If the BG is edgy or jumpy, he might pull the trigger in reflex or inadvertently.


Just my .02$

 

[clubsoda22]

practiced with airsoft and simunitions. Even though the person (all very experianced shooters, in one case the instructor from a highly respected training outfit) i was training with was expecting the weapon grab, none could react in time. I have experimented with countless people. If you know how to perform the grab, the chances are getting shot are very slim. You can exicute a grab faster than someone can pull the trigger in 99.9% of cases, even when they\'re expecting it. Action always beats reaction.

It\'s not a last resort either. Consider someone at point blank range, is if faster to disarm him. or to clear your cover garment and draw?

If your ever in the philly area, bring an airsoft gun and a paintball mask and i\'ll teach you that it doesn\'t take lightning reflexes or being a ninja.

 

[KC135]

Do not want to argue with anyone.....but as a handgun retention instructor, believe me, successful takeaways are dependent on many things. If they were not dangerous with soft air guns, ask yourself why the safety equipemnt. Now translate that to real guns, and no safety equipment.

Can it be done? Yes, with all the conditions right, and a lot of good luck, and absence of murphy.

 

[Bumper]

Originally posted by clubsoda22
It\'s not a last resort either. Consider someone at point blank range, is if faster to disarm him. or to clear your cover garment and draw?

But he has to clear the cover garment and have drawn for you to disarm him. I have attended enough retention and disarming training in the academy to know that you can disarm some people, but others knowing as much about retention as you do about disarming will present you with an unsolveable problem. An officer survival tactics instructor and sergeant there told us, \"If you think you are Billy Badass, wait until you meet Buster Badass\". The point being, if missed, is that it does not matter how tough you may believe yourself to be, there is someone tougher. And KC135 alluded to it, Murphy\'s Law says it will be the guy you just encountered.

 

[clubsoda22]

we\'re talking about the above situation, his gun is already out. Would you take your chances with a disarm or drawing your own gun?

A weapong grab is the best responce to the above situation. Your movemernt is limited and your facing a drawn gun.

 

[KC135]

Neither.

Both.

As they say in the Army \'It all depends upon the terrain\'.

 

[Bumper]

Originally posted by clubsoda22
we\'re talking about the above situation, his gun is already out. Would you take your chances with a disarm or drawing your own gun?

A weapong grab is the best responce to the above situation. Your movemernt is limited and your facing a drawn gun.

I would come nearer doing what the guy did, punch him. I guess in this scenario that was a disarm, huh? You may be right

 

[clubsoda22]

well, let\'s also take into account that you are unarmed per this scenario.

Even if armed i would be tempted in this scenario to do a grab, not a full disarm, but move his gun off to the side where the shot will miss or hit something not vital then draw and shoot point blank from retention. Also if it\'s a revolver you may be able to lock up the cylinder and if it\'s a semi-auto cause a FTE, buying you some time to get you gun out.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by clubsoda22
practiced with airsoft and simunitions. Even though the person (all very experianced shooters, in one case the instructor from a highly respected training outfit) i was training with was expecting the weapon grab, none could react in time. I have experimented with countless people. If you know how to perform the grab, the chances are getting shot are very slim. You can exicute a grab faster than someone can pull the trigger in 99.9% of cases, even when they\'re expecting it. Action always beats reaction.

It\'s not a last resort either. Consider someone at point blank range, is if faster to disarm him. or to clear your cover garment and draw?

If your ever in the philly area, bring an airsoft gun and a paintball mask and i\'ll teach you that it doesn\'t take lightning reflexes or being a ninja.

Young, dumb and full of bravo sierra

 

[clubsoda22]

shoot me a PM and i\'ll be sure to forward you the e-mail of the instructor from the nationally recognized training organization who taught the course in retention.

You can shoot him an e-mail to the effect of:

\"Although you have trained police and military around the world, have trained under some of the most recognized leaders in the shooting community, are a sheriff\'s deputy with advanced SWAT training and a certified instructor in handgun, carbine shotgun and sniper techniques, i\'m calling your bullshit on weapon disarms. That\'s all hollywood.\"