[QKShooter]

Good Tread Topic! buginajar

OK...I won't answer this thread topic Right Now But, Please allow me to add something to it. Since you said:
"Ok...I know the "rule" that you can't outdraw a drawn gun, but think of this."

There was one decently famous guy/shooter that was SO Quick on the draw that he could "Beat The Drop" every time.
He could draw from the holster and shoot you (usually at least twice) quicker than you could pull the trigger on a gun that you had already pointed at him and with your finger already on the trigger.
Hint: Think back on your old gun magazine articles.
Question: Who was it?

Ok Folks...now answer the question posed by buginajar.
Would you try to beat the drop?
His question is EXTREMELY valid these days since your full and humble cooperation during a robbery is No Guarantee that you get to walk away with your precious life anymore. Folks IS crazy these days.

 

[rocky]

tough call. I think each situation is diffrent and I would need to try and weigh my options/ judging from the BG's demenor. The best ya can hope for drawing on someone who have a weapon on ya is to get a non vital wound out of it. I think if I did I would try to drop as I draw, probably to 1 side.

 

[jdsumner]

Bill Jordan.
Keep your ccw license along w dl seperate from your wallet. That way, if you have to give the wallet up, your assailant doesnt have either. Once the wallet is handed over, and the threat does not leave; either die, or die trying. If you can step off the line of fire, while drawing, you might give yourself half a chance. I know there are black ops-wetworks-ice water in their veins-snake eaters out there who can disarm their oponents and perfom a .45 caliber labotomy in .00001 seconds. I aint that guy. IF he'll just take the wallet and go on, cool. If not, all bets are off. I believe the general rule is: action beats reaction. If his gun is drawn, he has outdrawn you. But, if he hasnt made the decision to SHOOT you, you might can get inside his ooda loop by moving off the line of fire whilst drawing. While his mind is observing and orienting, you may have created the window you needed. IF, however, he has decided to shoot you after he recieves the wallet and you arent already moving, game over. Just my simple opinion. Others will be better, I'm sure.

Dan

 

[Bud White]

Qk bill jorden(sp)

Im not sure what i would do if it was a shoulder holster ya could try to shoot them though your coatbut if i thought i could beat the drop on the guy sure what do i have to lose .. Some will say you life but with most people getting killed hard to proscute with no witness

 

[Euclidean]

I carry a somewhat convincing looking $4 Walmart wallet full of crap around when I go some place muggings are common. He will either be glad to take it and leave, and if he has time to rifle through it to see if there's anything good, I have time to draw.

If nothing else, if you practice pocket carry, you could wind up surprising the hell out of him by pulling out a .38 caliber wallet.

The fact is that if someone is pointing a gun at you, there is absolutely no reason not to assume they are about to kill you. Act accordingly.

I've always said it's entirely possible I may wind up dead in such a horrible scenario, but I don't want it to be because of a lack of effort on my part to try to survive.

 

[QKShooter]

Yep...Bill Jordan

:Winner2:

Well, I think the old "accidentally" drop the wallet...or the money routine has been pretty much "played out" to death on TV & in the movies...so that "used up diversion" sure won't work anymore. :biggrin:

 

[jdsumner]

Well, what'd I win?

Dan

 

[QKShooter]

jdsumner

TWO ICE COLD VIRTUAL BEERS !!!
Here Ya Go...Drink Em Up!
:a36a:

:tongue: That is the best Imported beer on the web! :wink:

 

[jdsumner]

mumblemumble...."virtual beers"...mumblemumble ...cheap rat bastmumblemumble

Dan

 

[Bumper]

Bill Jordan.
Keep your ccw license along w dl seperate from your wallet. That way, if you have to give the wallet up, your assailant doesnt have either. Once the wallet is handed over, and the threat does not leave; either die, or die trying. If you can step off the line of fire, while drawing, you might give yourself half a chance. I know there are black ops-wetworks-ice water in their veins-snake eaters out there who can disarm their oponents and perfom a .45 caliber labotomy in .00001 seconds. I aint that guy. IF he'll just take the wallet and go on, cool. If not, all bets are off. I believe the general rule is: action beats reaction. If his gun is drawn, he has outdrawn you. But, if he hasnt made the decision to SHOOT you, you might can get inside his ooda loop by moving off the line of fire whilst drawing. While his mind is observing and orienting, you may have created the window you needed. IF, however, he has decided to shoot you after he recieves the wallet and you arent already moving, game over. Just my simple opinion. Others will be better, I'm sure.

Dan

I am with Dan on this one. I would add, however, that it is not likely that someone could get themselves that close to me without me knowing it. And someone on their tippytoes behind me when I see them better have their gun already out. In a crowd they might be able to get that close but doubtful that, in a crowd, they would shoot you after you cooperated with them. Too many witnesses that will be lining up at their death penalty trial.

 

[triggertime]

I think that if you're walking though a dark parking lot at night and you're so preoccupied with your thoughts to the point that you're completely oblivious to whats going on around you, then you deserve to be mugged and shot.

If you look like prey, you will be eaten.

 

[Fjolnirsson]

Would you draw on a drawn gun?

Yes. Let me clarify. I might not draw, I might try the disarm moves I learned in the academy, or some other tactic. Which might include drawing. But I would do something.
Rather than be continually plagued by "what if" the rest of my life. If that same guy did let me live, I have allowed him to go rob somebody else. Also, I won't bet on him letting me live once he has what he wants. How could I live with my inaction if he went two blocks down and killed someone's child?
Sorry, I think it would be a blow to my pride if I allowed someone to victimize me. I don't think I'd recover. No offense to anyone who thinks otherwise, it's just who I am. I'd rather die than live on my knees. I think letting the guy get away with it would torment me in the wee hours of the night. It would make me feel less of a person.

 

[CLASS3NH]

Just a thought here.
I've been in dark parking lots at night, and always had my hand on my BUG in my pocket or my jacket pocket. I think if I had a weapon in my shoulder blades, It would be shame on me. If you're like me, you never park in a dark area, without having somthing in your hand. I think I'd turn and attempt to deflect his arm so the weapon was canted off to one side, and out of my direct path, while drawing my own weapon (which we all know should be in your hand while walking in a dark area. I'd hope at that point to catch him off guard and either stare him down, or save my live by totally ending the threat. Rather be judged by twelve, than carried by six

 

[jdsumner]

triggertime- beg to differ, but other than other criminals, NO ONE deserves to be mugged or shot for not being aware. That may be a consequence, but not a deserved one. Thats a jackass thing to say. Kind of like the girl who wore a short skirt deserves to be raped.
Despite all the guys who claim to be in condition orange all the time, with mirrors on their glasses to see whos behind them, EVERYONE lets their guard down now and again. So lets just for the sake of arguement, say that a woman (or child) is on the ground begging for assistance when you enter the ally, and being the righteous dude you are, offer assistance. That of course is when her partner eases up behind you and puts a .38 to your spine. It can happen, the smarter street thugs prey on other humans' ability to feel empathy and sympathy. Do YOU deserve to be shot or mugged not noticing the mugger now? NO. No one does.

Dan

 

[jdsumner]

I dont think the original poster was asking so much a question of how not to get into this situation; but placing you there and looking for answeres as to how you would deal with it (or think you will deal with it) once you are there. I agree with all who said that by being observant and diligent in safety measures, we can avoid 99% of those situations that may require a pistol. However, even we who practice these measures still carry a gun. Why? for that 1%.

Dan

 

[QKShooter]

Really Good Comments So Far

I agree that the penalty for "lack of awareness" should not be death mandated by a "concealed carry" web forum. That is rather harsh.
It's also very naive for Sheeple to assume that they can walk around with their heads totally up in the clouds and not be placing themselves at higher risk to become sad statistics.
It's unfortunate that ordinary folks watch the daily news & still wrongly assume that all of those "bad things" will still ALWAYS happen to "somebody else."
Right Now...in my area ~ the "Law Of Averages" and "Lady Luck" are still on their side & not very many folks are getting robbed, mugged, car-jacked, & raped. Those are still fairly rare occurrences but, things are slowly getting worse.
I think it's very sad that such a majority of good American people are so ingrained with a seemingly permanent victim mentality.
Criminals KNOW that most people will be very easy pickings & Easy Free Money.
That fact (in some ways) actually gives us (The Prepared Armed Citizen) a real decided advantage because most criminals can get away with and ply their "trade" being untrained, unskilled, lazy, & sloppy.
In other words...they are REALLY NOT GOOD or adept at what they do.
They are for the most part just common dumb thugs.
We (Forum Folks) are NOT dumb, lazy, untrained, unskilled, drug-induced, or...sloppy and....we are armed. :wink:
That spells BIG ADVANTAGE to me if we stay honed & decently alert.
In addition...our good situational awareness and avoidance of doing obviously stupid things will carry us a long way toward living a safe & long lifetime.
A good, safe, long and happy life is what I wish for all our forum members & their loved ones. :smile:

Addition:
It's interesting that a just came across an older South African defensive maneuver that stated that an attempt at a full disarm should often NOT be taken but, that it was only necessary for a skilled shooter to radically divert the gun muzzle ~ move at a curving diagonal (forcing the BG reorient) while doing a simultaneous draw & multiple head shots.
I'll hafta see if I can track down that web page again & provide a URL address.
I don't know exactly what to think about that yet.
You know...same old story...everybody has bright ideas...it's finding the "tried & true" methods that have actually been "battle tested" to be effective that is very tough.
I think I draw quickly enough & am (hopefully) skilled enough with my carry firearm to pull that off.
I'll need to actually run through it & see if that tactic is "real life" viable for me. Right now...I'm not too keen on the thought of leaving a BG fully armed before I've cleared leather yet.
It could be something valuable to have stored in my upstairs mental "Bag Of Tricks" though.

 

[Prospector]

For most part I go along with JDsummer....however, if he in fact does take the wallet and starts leaving.....TEXAS allows me to shoot the bastard dead on the spot....front, back....doesn't matter. Yeah I know, the lawyers will come crawlin out .... I don't care!

 

[buginajar]

Excellent posts guys (most of you anyway :biggrin: ).

I like this forum already.

Anyway, while reading the replies a string of robberies here in the DFW area came to mind.....In lower greenville, nightlife intense area,...there were two guys going around robbing 5-6 people at a time at gun point.

In this situation, you could, and probably would be preoccupied with your company carrying on conversations and what not. Just something to ponder.

 

[triggertime]

QKShooter: Then what is the appropriate penalty for 'lack of awareness'? Tell the BG that you were not ready and demand a do-over?

My point is that if you are going to assume the responsibility of going armed, then you must also assume the responsibility of being aware of what is going on around you at all times. You can not walk around in the world in 'condition white' and expect to come home alive just because you have a talisman called a concealed carry permit in your wallet. It doesn't work that way. If you do not possess the proper mindset, then your firearm is not going to help you.