Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,555 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I know this sounds like an Onion parody, but it isn't. In a 5-4 ruling yesterday SCOTUS ruled at almost half of the state of Oklahoma, including the city of Tulsa, is legally Native American reservations, belonging to five tribes. The immediate effect is that the federal government, rather than the state, will now have jurisdiction in the territory to police and investigate major crimes, such as murder, rape or aggravated assault, that involve tribal members. Hundreds of criminal convictions previously reached by state prosecutors in the area could also have to be retried in federal courts.

The economic impact is unknown. Technically, states cannot levy taxes in reservations. Also, most Native American reservations have strict gun laws. Everyone in these areas may have to consider their CC permits, and even their ownership of firearms, null and void depending on tribal law. Tribes can technically even decide who can and can't live on tribal lands and who can even enter tribal lands. We don't know about all that yet. The other thing we don't know about is the possibility this could happen in other states. If there were reservation treaties that got violated, it is a possibility.

The redish/pink areas on the map below are the areas affected.

333233

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,166 Posts
One thing that is glaringly evident is that no one from the WSJ has ever been on an actual reservation. The federal government has zero authority on reservation lands. Nada. The tribes have their own police and tribal law is the law of the land. In point of fact, you are not actually in the United States when on a reservation. The single exception to this is federal interstate highways. The highway and right of way is still owned by the state. Federal law enforcement is not, and never has been, either equipped or able to do anything on the res.

How do I know this? Mrs OldChap is a member of the Cherokee Nation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,555 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
One thing that is glaringly evident is that no one from the WSJ has ever been on an actual reservation. The federal government has zero authority on reservation lands. Nada. The tribes have their own police and tribal law is the law of the land. In point of fact, you are not actually in the United States when on a reservation. The single exception to this is federal interstate highways. The highway and right of way is still owned by the state. Federal law enforcement is not, and never has been, either equipped or able to do anything on the res.

How do I know this? Mrs OldChap is a member of the Cherokee Nation.
The SCOTUS ruling was based on a criminal case tried in state court, which the ruling said should have been tried in federal court. The Major Crimes Act of 1885 establishes federal jurisdiction in the prosecution of serious crimes committed by Indians in Indian country.

From the FBI's website: "The FBI is responsible for investigating the most serious crimes in Indian Country— such as murder, child sexual and physical abuse, violent assaults, drug trafficking, public corruption, financial crimes, and Indian gaming violations. Nationwide, the FBI has investigative responsibilities for some 200 federally recognized Indian reservations. More than 100 agents in 19 of the Bureau’s 56 field offices work Indian Country matters full time. The FBI’s Indian Country Crimes Unit at FBI Headquarters promotes liaison and intelligence sharing through its Safe Trails Task Forces and working groups and provides critical training to Indian Country law enforcement in partnership with the Department of Justice and Bureau of Indian Affairs."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,166 Posts
Local, state, and federal law enforcement has to be invited onto the res. Only the tribal elder (Chief) has that authority. You guys should visit a res someday. It is an eye opening experience.

BTW one clue you will see is the presence of tribal owned and operated casinos in states where gambling is illegal otherwise. The reservations in New Mexico have some really nice resorts.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
33,899 Posts
Local, state, and federal law enforcement has to be invited onto the res. Only the tribal elder (Chief) has that authority. You guys should visit a res someday. It is an eye opening experience.

BTW one clue you will see is the presence of tribal owned and operated casinos in states where gambling is illegal otherwise. The reservations in New Mexico have some really nice resorts.
Two summers on Pine Ridge and nine more on Rosebud. Yeah, eye opening.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,480 Posts
This won't end well IMO. Are they also responsible for the infrastructure and upkeep?
I will admit, most of what I know about reservations and Indian law I learned watching, "Yellowstone". @OldChap...how close to the truth is that show?

I know Mike was joking (kind of) but technically, isn't the entire country now up for grabs by different tribes because they were here first?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,265 Posts
This won't end well IMO. Are they also responsible for the infrastructure and upkeep?
I will admit, most of what I know about reservations and Indian law I learned watching, "Yellowstone". @OldChap...how close to the truth is that show?

I know Mike was joking (kind of) but technically, isn't the entire country now up for grabs by different tribes because they were here first?
Seems that it's because of treaty obligations. Presumably it's not an issue for those whose land was not promised to someone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeanlouise

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,166 Posts
This won't end well IMO. Are they also responsible for the infrastructure and upkeep?
I will admit, most of what I know about reservations and Indian law I learned watching, "Yellowstone". @OldChap...how close to the truth is that show?

I know Mike was joking (kind of) but technically, isn't the entire country now up for grabs by different tribes because they were here first?
As far as the tribal police and leadership, pretty accurate. Of course, people who “own” land no longer really own it. They become subject to tribal law. Yellowstone is sort of a city slickered version of things though, at least as far as the res sort of being intermingled with a ranch and big city developments.

The issue of granting a tribe rights to a res: those lands are not usually anything to do with where the tribe used to “live.” The res was set up by a treaty - more or less. Some tribes got a res at gunpoint.

Historians who aren’t completely fixated on money pretty much agree that the “Native American” was really not the first people to settle in the America’s. That’s way off topic though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,985 Posts
Unfortunately the Native American reservations have some of the highest unemployment rates and suicide rates in the country. The tribal police I have met (and trained with a few) were dedicated hardworking LEO's who are often ostracized from their own people. My ex grew up on the Mescalero Apache reservation. Just my .02 worth!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: The Old Anglo

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,189 Posts
We need to give the United States back to the Neanderthals. All we need to do is locate one of them.
My wife sometimes thinks I’m a Neanderthal. Do I get reparations? Animal skins? Maybe a pet Thagasaurus?
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top