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Discussion Starter #1
NOTE : This question does not involve breaking any laws. It has to do with company policy.

This question is for anyone with any knowledge about search dogs and what the can and cannot detect, when it comes to weapons.

Hypothetical Scenario: Say a person lives in the state of Texas and has a CHL. They work for a major corporation that has a no weapons policy that includes the parking lot. In Texas the law generally does not include the parking lot as part of the property for no carry laws. \"Premises” does not include “any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.” Of course company policy is a different matter. Being a “right to work” state you do not have any leg to stand on if you are fired for having a legally carried weapon in your vehicle even though “premises” does not include the parking lot.

My question has to do with search dogs. Say this employee wanted to legally keep a handgun in their vehicle for protection, even though it violates company policy for employees. Of course they also don’t want to lose their job. If the company did a random walk through the parking lot with dogs (for example to search for drugs), what would it take for the dog to detect a weapon? Is it the ammo that they can smell? If it was a cleaned weapon, but the magazine with the ammo was not in the vehicle, would the dogs detect it?
 

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I have worked on cases involving drug dogs and explosives dogs, but I\'ve never heard of \"gun dogs.\" In my experience, drug dogs and explosives dogs are not cross-trained.

From an economic standpoint, I find it difficult to imagine that a corporation would spend the money it takes to hire explosives sniffing dogs (which are sort of in high demand right now) to run through its parking lot just to try to mess with employees.

I suspect that liability concerns are what is at the bottom of their policy. By having the policy, they feel they are now in the clear. I don\'t see how the corporation\'s bottom line would be improved by renting dogs and going after employees.

I know this didn\'t answer your question, but I think - hypothetically - it would be unlikely for a corporation to look for weapons with dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I’m not sure how much cross training dogs get either, but I heard about some employees of a company in Oklahoma that got fired when drug sniffing dogs detected guns in their vehicles. I think I remember some other similar cases.

I don’t know how many companies would bring in dogs to sniff for weapons but I do know some companies do it for drugs.
 

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Hmm. Well, that\'s odd. I wonder why LE isn\'t using the cross-trained dogs in my jurisdiction.

Dog sniffs are pretty unreliable anyway, but on private property anything goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So back to the original question. If a company uses dogs that are trained to sniff explosives/weapons, what about a firearm sets them off? If it is a clean gun, and the ammo is not in the vehicle, will they still be able to detect something?
 

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gun dogs

I would pick up the brass at the range and put it in a bag in the floor if they find it it\'s used brass no problem.

keep\'em guessing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The problem is if they demand a full search of the vehicle. Refusal could mean dismissal from employment if you are an employee and have agreed to follow written company policies as a condition of employment.
 

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I agree with dmag. I would do something that would possibly \"satisfy\" them should a dog detect something in my car. I would probably do something that would really catch their attention, surprise them and give them something to talk about so maybe they would decide not to search the rest of the car. What initially pops into my mind is one of those brass starter cannons they use to start races. Some of them use 12 gauge blanks. Lots of powder, but harmless, logical and interesting enough to be able to turn a line of questioning elsewhere.

Ultimately you will have to decide if carrying is worth the risk of losing your job. If it\'s not, don\'t carry to work. If it is, roll the dice and take what you get. I work for the government, in a building that clearly states that no weapons are allowed anywhere on the property (including the parking garage). I carry my Benchmade in my pocket every day and one of my carry guns, an ASP baton and pepper spray in my vehicle. If they ever make a sweep of the garage I will probably be without a job. But I won\'t be alone. We have about 5 people (that I know of) that carry in their car.

Losing my job is a risk that I find acceptable. The high crime ares I drive through to get to work justify the risk to me.
 

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guns at work

Bumper you are right carred for two years two weeks ago the wrong person saw it the next day I was out. But thats ok start the new job next week at 2.25 more per hour than the old one.
As for the dogs once they find the used brass they are done so if they search your car it will be by eye and if it is up under the dash they want find it.

We hope, but the next job might pay more
 

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My late grandfather trained bloodhounds and worked with the police, and one of his friends had a little yippy dog that sniffed out guns. That guy used a tennis ball laced with gun oil to train the dog. That little dog was used to find guns tossed by crooks, etc.

You really can\'t fool a well-trained dog\'s nose. Grandpa used his family members as bloodhound bait, so I can tell you firsthand that dog noses are incredibly acute!

Maybe I\'ve watched too many COPS episodes :D but I\'m under the impression that when they open the door to your vehicle, the dog jumps in and sniffs out the interior. You might have a decoy, but the dog will most likely find whatever else is there.

I\'m with Bumper that my life is worth more than my job. I can always find another job.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the input. That’s what I wanted to know. If they dogs would be alerted by things like gun oil and/or cleaner and powder residue on the gun, or if it is only the powder in the ammo.

As for deciding what’s more important, carrying or a job, I think the fact that I’m asking the question should indicate were my priorities are. I trying to find the best solution to stay safe, but also keep a good job.
 

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Choices

Life is all about choices.

We just have to accept responsibility for them, and not complain when one goes sour.

I learned a long time ago, if it is not in writing, I will not ask.

My vehicle has two or three bottles of Break Free, a cleaning kit, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by KC135
We just have to accept responsibility for them, and not complain when one goes sour.
I’m not sure if you were implying something, but I assure you that I always take responsibility for my actions. There was also no complaining anywhere in my posts. I was just getting as much information as possible.
 

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Originally posted by JT
Originally posted by KC135
We just have to accept responsibility for them, and not complain when one goes sour.
I’m not sure if you were implying something, but I assure you that I always take responsibility for my actions. There was also no complaining anywhere in my posts. I was just getting as much information as possible.
I was confused by that, as well.
 

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JT

JT, my comment was not aimed at you, (if it had been, I would have said so) rather at some who have complained in the media about losing their jobs because they chose to carry in opposition to their company\'s rules.

They knew the rules, and chose to ignore them.

Choice should equal responsibility, but in our world today, often it does not.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Originally posted by KC135
JT, my comment was not aimed at you
Ok
Originally posted by KC135
some who have complained in the media about losing their jobs because they chose to carry in opposition to their company\'s rules.
I agree that they should accept the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, I have no problem with them going to the media with their story, and thereby alerting the gun-owning public (as well as the population at large) of this company’s policies and possibly bringing about change.
 

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Another View from the New Guy

Originally posted by Betty
My late grandfather trained bloodhounds and worked with the police, and one of his friends had a little yippy dog that sniffed out guns. That guy used a tennis ball laced with gun oil to train the dog. That little dog was used to find guns tossed by crooks, etc.

You really can\'t fool a well-trained dog\'s nose. Grandpa used his family members as bloodhound bait, so I can tell you firsthand that dog noses are incredibly acute!

Maybe I\'ve watched too many COPS episodes :D but I\'m under the impression that when they open the door to your vehicle, the dog jumps in and sniffs out the interior. You might have a decoy, but the dog will most likely find whatever else is there.

I\'m with Bumper that my life is worth more than my job. I can always find another job.
I will agreed with this young lady 100%-- I have 3 German Shorthair Pointers, and can tell you for sure they have the best nose after a Bloodhound. I do not wish to stray from the question, as the answer lies in the dogs training. A good pup can be trained to find just about ANYTHING--if it is done right. My first dog, on her first time out, found a Dove that had been in the water of a pond overflow for TWO hours.:eek: Yes, 14 years later, I am still proud of her. :) What needs to happen with some of these companies, is for them to be held responsible for their workers that they have in fact disarmed. All else said here is true- you know the rules, and you can choose to look elsewhere for another job-- The point here is-- you should not have to. If you do follow their rules, and become a victim, then they need to be held accountable. It is really just that simple. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the dog info.

My instructor from my first CHL class also trained dogs for this type of work. He claimed that one of his dogs could sniff out a small container of cocaine suspended in a gas tank. Amazing stuff. He also said anything you use to mask the smell will not work. Things like Cheyenne Pepper just (a) attract the dogs attention because they smell something that is not suppose to be there and (b) piss them off because they just got a nose full of the stuff.

Unfortunately he didn’t get into the ins and outs of them searching for guns and I didn’t think to ask at the time.

Originally posted by Tusker10MM
you know the rules, and you can choose to look elsewhere for another job-- The point here is-- you should not have to. If you do follow their rules, and become a victim, then they need to be held accountable. It is really just that simple. :)
The other problem is it is not that simple to just find another job. How are you going to know they are “carry friendly” before you go to work there? Ask them in the interview? Good luck with that.
 

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u sure can fool an unspayed MALE dog.

all it takes is a bit of the urine from a bitch in heat. :) It aint THAT hard to make a gun \"unfindable\" by the MAN who is trying to followup on the dog\'s \"alert\", either. For instance, they dont have the right to CUT open parts of your car. Enough said. With all the different gun oils around, you can leave the rags, etc, laying around, create enough \"false-alerts\" to make them not want to risk getting sued over cutting up your car. What I\'d do is find someplace nearby to stash a gun, and either just leave it there, or pick it up and drop it off every day. Might even hide one AT work, that I bought with no \"papers\".
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Originally posted by meme
For instance, they dont have the right to CUT open parts of your car. Enough said.
They don’t have a right to do a lot of things. You also don’t have a “right” to a job there. That’s the key. They are not held to the standards of legal evidence (or held to laws on where firearms are legal for that matter), when it comes to whether or not you get to keep your job.

Oklahoma is one of the few places where the law is attempting to actually tell the employers they have to let you carry in your car.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138512,00.html
 
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