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some obvious conclusions here..............(something it weird and the Link wont post)


https://apnews.com/a592850f54634daea31be69defec841e

WASHINGTON (AP) — Most students who committed deadly school attacks over the past decade were badly bullied, had a history of disciplinary trouble and their behavior concerned others but was never reported, according to a U.S. Secret Service study released Thursday.

In at least four cases, attackers wanted to emulate other school shootings, including those at Columbine High School in Colorado, Virginia Tech University and Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

The study by the Secret Service’s National Threat Assessment Center is one of the most comprehensive reviews of school attacks since the Columbine shootings in 1999. The report looked in depth at 41 school attacks from 2008 through 2017.

The information gleaned through the research will help train school officials and law enforcement on how to better identify students who may be planning an attack and how to stop them before they strike.

“These are not sudden, impulsive acts where a student suddenly gets disgruntled,” Lina Alathari, the center’s head, said in an Associated Press interview. “The majority of these incidents are preventable.”

Nearly 40 training sessions for groups of up to 2,000 are scheduled. Alathari and her team trained about 7,500 people during 2018. The training is free.

The Secret Service is best known for its mission to protect the president. The threat assessment center was developed to study how other kinds of attacks could be prevented. Officials use that knowledge and apply it in other situations such as school shootings or mass attacks.

Since the Columbine attack on April 20, 1999, there have been scores of school shootings. Some, like Sandy Hook in 2012, were committed by nonstudents. There were others where no one was injured. Those were not included in the study.

The report covers 41 school attacks from 2008 through 2017 at K-12 schools and were chosen if the attacker was a current or former student who used a weapon to injure or kill at least one person at the school while targeting others.

“We focus on the target so that we can prevent it in the future,” Alathari said.

Nineteen people were killed and 79 were injured; victims included students, staff and law enforcement. The research was launched following the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, in 2018.

The Secret Service put out a best practices guide based on some of the research last July to 40,000 schools nationwide, but the new report is a comprehensive look at the attacks.

The shootings happened fast and were usually over within a minute or less. Law enforcement rarely arrived before an attack was over. Attacks generally started during school hours and occurred in one location, such as a cafeteria, bathroom or classroom.

Most attackers were male; seven were female. Researchers said 63 percent of the attackers were white, 15 percent were black, 5 percent Hispanic, 2 percent were American Indian or Alaska Native, 10 percent were of two or more races and 5 percent were undetermined.

The weapons used were mostly guns, but knives were also used. One attacker used a World War II-era bayonet. Most of the weapons came from the attackers’ homes, the investigators reported.
 

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I thought the common thread was that all school shooters are NRA members??? :scruntiny: :confused: :rolleyes:
 

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Of course they all showed signs. Unfortunately, so did thousands of other kids who never shot up a school.

This is the problem with these sorts of "intelligence failures." It isn't that the information isn't there. It is that it is buried in all of the other background noise that comes with it that is actually benign. People talk trash all the time. Many people who talk trash have the means to carry out what they say, but it never gets beyond the trash talking stage.

That "there were signs" before school shootings is completely unhelpful unless ways can be found to differentiate the difference between trash talking and actual threat projection.

Looking at some of the highlighted points of the study, most of the points are virtually useless.
-There is no profile of a student attacker, nor is there a profile for the type of school that has been targeted:
Okay, could be anybody.

-Attackers usually had multiple motives, the most common involving a grievance with classmates:
Never heard of a school where there weren't grievances between classmates

-Most attackers used firearms, and firearms were most often acquired from the home:
Not a factor in helping with understanding who might attack or when.

-Most attackers had experienced psychological, behavioral, or developmental symptoms
If you get into trouble at school, you have "behavioral problems."

-Half of the attackers had interests in violent topics:
What, D&D, video games, RISK, playing football?

-All attackers experienced social stressors involving their relationships with peers and/or romantic partners:
Most of these were teenagers and/or young adults. Of course they have relationship issues.

-Nearly every attacker experienced negative home life factors:
Most schools can't assess these or distinguish between these and the norms of the area.

-Most attackers were victims of bullying, which was often observed by others:
Bullying is way to broad of a consideration. Who hasn't been bullied in some way?

-Most attackers had a history of school disciplinary actions, and many had prior contact with law enforcement:
See, if you get in trouble at school, you have behavioral problems. Hmmm.

-All attackers exhibited concerning behaviors. Most elicited concern from others, and most communicated their
intent to attack:
Lots of people talk of plans to burn down schools, bomb schools, or have fantasies of bad things happening to teachers and communicate those desires, but how many actually act on these?

This sort of reminds me of the 9/11 attacks where the information was there, from all over the country and several law enforcement agencies that when people went in AFTER THE FACT, it all of a sudden made perfect sense, but why didn't it make sense beforehand? Simple. The information was scattered, disjointed, coming from multiple sources and locations that didn't necessarily have connections to one another, and almost all of the signs were not of any sort of actionable illegal activity. When said information got reported to law enforcement, since it wasn't anything actually actionable, it took a low priority of consideration along with all of the other actionable reports and non-actionable reports that the agencies had to deal with.

So that is what we have with the information on these shooters. You have school teachers that may see some of the traits. You have parents that may see or know of some of the traits. You have friends that may know of some of the traits. You have law enforcement that may know of some of the traits....but these groups never get together and form threat profiles of students, say on a weekly or monthly basis in order to head off any sort of pending attacks, right? The report says that schools should implement threat assessment process, but as fully noted throughout the report, administrators and school officials are often clueless as to what is going on at the student level. Of course, there is a guide for it... Enhancing School Safety Using a Threat Assessment Model: An Operational Guide for Preventing
Targeted School Violence.
It calls on the school using a team of HIGHLY TRAINED personnel to carry out this process. So there are roughly 133,000 primary and secondary schools in the US, plus 5300 colleges, plus thousands of trade schools. This is going to be a multi-billion dollar process just to get the highly trained personnel needed.

Great study, but really not anything realistically actionable that I can find in it.
 

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I have read this report before. One other tidbit I read, School shooters are most like the kind of people who target the president! That's why the Secret Service did this study. They seem to have the same motivating factors! DR
 

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That "there were signs" before school shootings is completely unhelpful unless ways can be found to differentiate the difference between trash talking and actual threat projection.

Looking at some of the highlighted points of the study, most of the points are virtually useless.
That list describes about a third of my high school's graduating class.
 

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Of course they all showed signs. Unfortunately, so did thousands of other kids who never shot up a school.

This is the problem with these sorts of "intelligence failures." It isn't that the information isn't there. It is that it is buried in all of the other background noise that comes with it that is actually benign. People talk trash all the time. Many people who talk trash have the means to carry out what they say, but it never gets beyond the trash talking stage.

That "there were signs" before school shootings is completely unhelpful unless ways can be found to differentiate the difference between trash talking and actual threat projection...
That's not what I "get" from the study.
To be fair, it's also probably not what the Secret Service "gets" from its own study.

What I see is that school administrations, police agencies, and parents too, need to find ways to smooth socialization, in schools, in homes, in society.
The shooters had been bullied? Who was observing, to prevent or control bullying? Teachers? Parents?
The shooters might've considered themselves "incels." OK, so who was observing and working on getting these kids off of their computer fixations, integrating them into society, and making them exercise and eat better? Teachers? Parents?

I admit that when I was in school, lo those many years ago, I was developing into a "loner" (in my case because of parental abuse).
Teachers noticed it, and actually "assigned" better-adjusted kids in my class to take me under their wings and turn me around.
I found out about it after I had become better adjusted, and had freely joined the group: I asked; they openly told me.
(Parental abuse was neither mentioned nor dealt-with, back then. But the symptoms were.)

Society has a responsibility to its "loners" and "misfits." If those responsibilities aren't dealt with, schools get shot-up and people die.
But today's society is running low on responsibility.
 

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Kids have always bullied other kids in high school. The question that rings in my mind is, in the cases where this is known to be happening, why doesn't the school do something about it (I'm sure they try)? I'm not sure there's ever going to be a way to make bullying completely socially unacceptable, but it ought to be a goal, even if it's an unobtainable goal.
 

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That's not what I "get" from the study.
Probably not, because it wasn't in the study. It is just a reality of this sort of information. It is just so much easier to understand this sort of thing AFTER the fact than beforehand. If they could understand it beforehand, they would not be coming up with the bureaucratically complicated and financially impossible solutions to trying to stave off the problem.
 

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This is a complex issue. I was bullied in high school. Heck, pretty much every male student who wasn't a star athlete, or class president was bullied by somebody. Honestly, I think that to some degree, it is necessary to the process of growing into an adult that can handle adversity. Also, in my day, we had rifles and shotguns in the gun racks of our trucks, but no one ever shot anyone. Why? That would have been crazy, by our standards then, wouldn't it? What we have now, is a "ME" generation that see themselves as the center of their universe. Parents don't teach morals, or coping skills. The kids are immersed in their smart phones, and the parents who should be interacting more with their kids have their faces buried in their phones too. We have a social media culture that suggests that being noticed is the most important thing, and a main stream media that feeds on "if it bleeds, it leads" sensationalism. It is no wonder that depressed, ostracized (even if only in their own mind) kids see a way to get even and be noticed by committing a horrific act. No on has taught them the value of other lives, or even the value of their own.

"See something, say something" may stop some of these acts, and armed teachers and guards are great for after everything else has failed and the little psychos show up ready to create mayhem. But the only real solution I see, is to turn this hedonistic, instant gratification culture around, and raise kids with respect for life. Sadly, I don't see that happening any time soon.
 

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Warning signs came much sooner, before the kids started to school.

IF (and a big if) parents looked at what the public schools taught they might have had a second opinion about sending their kids to soak up the lies in the books to begin with. I’ve seen the books when I went back just over 10 years ago, full of lies, liberal lies.

Books don’t teach right from wrong. The books don’t teach you to love one another either. Should burn the dang things, lock up the communist that wrote them.

A child now days would be better raised in the wood ignorant than to give them over to the public school system! :yup:
 
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A lot of young people are thrust into adult situations when they don't have the maturity to understand how to handle these situations. The culture in these schools is so much different than it was when we went to school. With today's social media these kids think that everything that happens in their lives is a matter of life and death. They need to understand that people change and when it affects them that life will go on no matter how bad things look at the moment. They have to understand that everything changes after high school and that the best days of their lives are still ahead of them. I think that a lot of parents push their kids into being adults waaay too soon whether they can handle it or not. You are not a failure until you quit trying.
 

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What we have now, is a "ME" generation that see themselves as the center of their universe. Parents don't teach morals, or coping skills.
- the boomers were the first ME generation, they were spoiled
- the boomers fell for every new-age scam in the book when raising their children (millenials):
- credit/debt, ADHD (instead of butt whoopings), "time-outs", therapy, SSRIs, counting to 3 (or 10), birth-control pills, participation-trophies and giving the child MORE when he/she misbehaved

- not all boomers, but alot..

- the result: millenials
- not all... but alot:

- have no concept of consequences
- have no talent (never had to deal with losing)

- lives with parents until 40
- receives allowance check until 40
- doesn't reproduce (incel)


- kids today and incels aren't used to loosing and consequences
- they were told "YOU WIN!" too much when it was a LIE

- you finished 8th place at the track meet - YOU LOST! YOU DONT GET A PRIZE!
- deal with it!

- nope, they were told they won

- any wonder they turn into sociopaths narcissist incels?


- this is all the result of taking good ole fashoned BUTT WHOOPINGS WITH A BELT out of American parenting culture...

- this is what you get...
 

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Human nature is the same as it ever was. Technology is different. Culture is different. Consciousness is different.

We are not as civilized as we would like to believe and never have been and never will be.
 

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That's not what I "get" from the study.
To be fair, it's also probably not what the Secret Service "gets" from its own study.

What I see is that school administrations, police agencies, and parents too, need to find ways to smooth socialization, in schools, in homes, in society.
The shooters had been bullied? Who was observing, to prevent or control bullying? Teachers? Parents?
...

Society has a responsibility to its "loners" and "misfits." If those responsibilities aren't dealt with, schools get shot-up and people die.
But today's society is running low on responsibility.[/QUOTE]

Great points. Nothing infuriated my son more than pulling all-nighters finishing up a team project for school only to see the kid who shirked his duty, which required my son's all-nighters, get a better grade.

I was bullied in sixth grade and the teachers all turned blind eyes, flagrantly, intentionally. Some stupid "policy." One good wrestle with the worst of them ended the bullying. Things should never have come to that, however.

I would imagine fairness, or at least good, honest attempts by parents and teachers towards fairness, goes a long way towards healing the emotional wounds of being slighted.
 
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