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I was early for a meeting this morning so was killing time having a second breakfast. One of the private firm guards that provides government facility security was sitting next to me so I asked him what his carry was?

"A .38"

"What model?"

"I don't know, it's just what they give us. The original owner got some kind of deal on .38's so that's what we get."

I suppose it's possible he was just blowing me off, but I got the distinct impression he really didn't know what he was carrying.
 

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I think the distinct impression you got was probably right. I would imagine that you could get the same response from many guards.
 

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Its not unusual at all. I talked to a LEO at the range who was very surprised at how much larger my M1-A made by Springfield were than the M-14 made by Ruger he had in the trunk of his patrol car. It took me a while to figure out he was serious. Not everyone is a gun nut.

Michael
 

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Yeah, just because someone's occupation requires possesing a firearm, that does not mean they are interested in guns on a personal level. Doing your homework on details of work equipment(Gun in this case) is not something most people do in spare time. If someone flips burgers for a living, Im sure they probably are not sure about the details of the grill they use or type of spatula they utilize. The only time this guy might even go to the range is in prep for his renewal of commission license.

People interested in guns are a different breed.
 

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By the AD's I've seen from some LEO's here, I believe it. One just about put two rounds into me..... only 4 inches off... and hit the counter instead that we were standing at.
 

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Yeah, just because someone's occupation requires possesing a firearm, that does not mean they are interested in guns on a personal level. Doing your homework on details of work equipment(Gun in this case) is not something most people do in spare time. If someone flips burgers for a living, Im sure they probably are not sure about the details of the grill they use or type of spatula they utilize. The only time this guy might even go to the range is in prep for his renewal of commission license.

People interested in guns are a different breed.
I don't know about that. In my line of work(technology), if you don't learn the tools of the trade, you fail at completing assigned responsibilities(which in some cases can very well lead to life and death situations) and you get canned. It's really a simple concept. Part of the guards responsibility clearly requires a potential for using deadly force so they were issued sidearms. Now, that means they have a tool.

The issue though, is that if they are expected to do their job, they need to know how the tools required for the job operate at a bare minimum. Now, if you don't even know what kind of tool you have, how the blasted heck are you supposed to know how to use it?

It's the same thing with vehicle mechanics. If I get the slightest inkling that the guy about to work on my vehicle isn't a gearhead...he ain't touching my vehicle with a 10' pole! He better damn well know what every single tool in that chest in his garage is and know how to use them as well.

As for the burger flipping...well, that speaks for itself.:rolleyes:

I really HATE stupid people.:tired:
 

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But you new it was probably Mod 10 or Security Six.
 

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Yeah, just because someone's occupation requires possesing a firearm, that does not mean they are interested in guns on a personal level. Doing your homework on details of work equipment(Gun in this case) is not something most people do in spare time. If someone flips burgers for a living, Im sure they probably are not sure about the details of the grill they use or type of spatula they utilize. The only time this guy might even go to the range is in prep for his renewal of commission license.

People interested in guns are a different breed.
Agree, but at the very least, you should know the firearm you carry.

101 expectation IMHO. If I assigned a firearm to someone, I would require, in addition to other items, memorization of model, caliber, and firearm's serial number.
 

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If you're into guns, it's easy to state folks should know the nomenclature of the weapon they are carrying. Many don't, as many carpenters don't know the brand of the hammer they use. They carry a firearm because the contract requires it and they shoot minimally.

For guards who are non-types, they qualify with a revolver or pistol, get BASIC instruction that is required per the contract and it becomes their 'hammer'. Ask a guard carrying a revolver if it's a Colt or Smith and you'll probably get the 1000 yard stare. Not all, but alot.

Of course, I've seen LEOs I've worked with open the revolver cylinder and the bullets were green and moldy in the cylinder.

Go to any PD that carries autos and watch a FTF drill. Can be downright scary. Again, depends on your point of view.
 

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At least he didn't say, "It's a black one...:gah:"
 

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..as many carpenters don't know the brand of the hammer they use...
Please don't equate security guards with carpenters. Almost every carpenter I have known knows exactly which hammer he uses, and has a strong opinion on why it's the best (sound familiar?). Unskilled labors on the other hand do not know, other than it was the cheapest at the store. Security guards are nothing more than unskilled labor, most of the time.
 

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Please don't equate security guards with carpenters. Almost every carpenter I have known knows exactly which hammer he uses, and has a strong opinion on why it's the best (sound familiar?). Unskilled labors on the other hand do not know, other than it was the cheapest at the store. Security guards are nothing more than unskilled labor, most of the time.
:rofl: Agreed, but am I the only one that really sees that as a problem? I mean really? We're talking about "Guards" that we arm. One would think we wouldn't want to be arming up "unskilled labor" in the hopes that in the event that they actually have to use that tool that they accidentally miss the innocent bystanders and hit the BG?
 

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:rofl: Agreed, but am I the only one that really sees that as a problem? I mean really? We're talking about "Guards" that we arm. One would think we wouldn't want to be arming up "unskilled labor" in the hopes that in the event that they actually have to use that tool that they accidentally miss the innocent bystanders and hit the BG?
LOL, actually this is no worse then giving out how many thousands of CC Permits to unskilled shooters who went to a class and then shot at a targer what 10 yards away one time and now they carry a weapon around under their sleeve, coat or on their hips/belt or hidden wherever. The 10 yard comment is sarcasm, I don't know every states CCP Program, but I'm sure 99% of them are not more then 12 - 16 hours with only a 1 time shoot.
 

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i'm not surprised he didn't know. i was once talked to a deputy sheriff in a local supermarket. i noticed he had a Sig Sauer, but i couldn't tell which one, so i asked him.

"oh, i don't know, it's what they give us. i think it's a .40 caliber, though. i only shot it to qualify."

i found this particularly horrifying.
 

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I don't know about that. In my line of work(technology), if you don't learn the tools of the trade, you fail at completing assigned responsibilities(which in some cases can very well lead to life and death situations) and you get canned. It's really a simple concept. Part of the guards responsibility clearly requires a potential for using deadly force so they were issued sidearms. Now, that means they have a tool.

The issue though, is that if they are expected to do their job, they need to know how the tools required for the job operate at a bare minimum. Now, if you don't even know what kind of tool you have, how the blasted heck are you supposed to know how to use it?

It's the same thing with vehicle mechanics. If I get the slightest inkling that the guy about to work on my vehicle isn't a gearhead...he ain't touching my vehicle with a 10' pole! He better damn well know what every single tool in that chest in his garage is and know how to use them as well.

As for the burger flipping...well, that speaks for itself.:rolleyes:

I really HATE stupid people.:tired:

I understand what you mean about needing to know how some of your tools of the trade work. The burger flipper knows how the spatula & grill work, clean them both, and how to use them proficiently. The question was about knowing the details of which type of tool he was carrying. He just knows its a .38 was his response. He didn't say he didnt know how to maintain his firearm or know how to shoot it accurately. He just does not care to know too much about specifics that gun lovers would know. His whole career may pass without ever drawing the weapon to fire it. Police Officers are in a lot more critical situations everyday and some never draw weapons. Its reasonable to assume he is a lot less likely to need to use his sidearm than an officer of the law will. There for his knowledge & proficiency with the designated firearm is likely to be less. Especially if he does not carry a firearm legally off duty as well.

You know the type of things that you have to know to do your job correctly. Knowing the exact model of a firearm is not required for him to protect the property & clients that he is assigned to. His mind is more of the weapon of choice he needs to use in order to make the right decisions to handle situations he encounters. Technical positions are a different cup of tea from the type of position this guy has. If you or say a Mechanic are building things or fixing things for people then the tools you use to do so are gonna be a lot more critical to your job on a daily basis. You use them everyday or more regularly than the officer would ever use his firearm. Like I said before he may only ever shoot his weapon for practice to to keep up ability to renew license.

I get your point that he should know the minimum. IMO, the minimum info to do his job is not whether he knows he is using a Colt model or Smith & wesson model ******** firearm. I would only care that he keeps it maintained, has good understanding of when its time to use it, & is he accurate with it.

Sure I'd want my mechanic to know his way around a tool box & vehicles. He will be utilizing the tools to fix my car. The brand of the tool or model specifics are not important for him to know. As long as he can use the tool to do the job right, thats all I would care about. Not his knowledge of irrelevant specifics not related to my specific issue. Would you care if he knows the specifics of a sidearm if he were in position to protect your life, or would you just be relieved that he knows how to protect you? The most important this is the knowledge of how to use the tools of the trade to do the specific job.

Thats all I mean bro :wave:
 

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I was early for a meeting this morning so was killing time having a second breakfast. One of the private firm guards that provides government facility security was sitting next to me so I asked him what his carry was?

"A .38"

"What model?"

"I don't know, it's just what they give us. The original owner got some kind of deal on .38's so that's what we get."

I suppose it's possible he was just blowing me off, but I got the distinct impression he really didn't know what he was carrying.
He likely handles it and shoots it just as well as he knows what it is.

Bet that really makes you feel secure to be under his watchful protection.:smile:

YMMV
 

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If he's not in to guns then not knowing the make and model isn't too surprising. It doesn't mean he can't shoot! He might have just been blowing you off too. :wink:

I've worked with cops who didn't even like guns. :gah:
 

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An intimate knowledge of the nomenclature is not a prerequisite to functional competence. I have known a number of police officers that couldn't tell you what they were issued but qualified "expert". As one explained, " I didn't buy it. It's what they gave me. As long as it works who cares what it's called?"
 

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Yeah, I completely agree with these last 2 statememnts from Thumper ("If he's not in to guns then not knowing the make and model isn't too surprising. It doesn't mean he can't shoot!") & mcp1810("An intimate knowledge of the nomenclature is not a prerequisite to functional competence. "). You guys kinda said what I was getting at in a lot less words...LOL.

I am a Security Officer, and enjoy what I do. I am not the typical sleep at the job guard portrayed in most movies or even that many of you may have encountered. I do my job well, and make those I serve feel completely secure. I care about what I do and take my job as seriously as any of you take yours. The moment a person feels like what they do is a minimal skilled position or, believe anyone can do it, then they perform that way. I know that everyone cannot do my job THE RIGHT WAY. I've seen so many fail. That mentality is usualy the reason why. This guy may or may not be the typical armed security guard, when speaking of knowledge of his weapon. But his competency to do his job overall has less to do with minimal details such as the model of his sidearm, etc. It has more to do with being alert, and preventing dangerous situations from occurring & watching for safety hazards, being an extension of the clients eye onsite, giving those around him a sense of security.

The Security Officers ability to recall events of a crime or accident is often very helpful to law enforcement who a lot of times will arrive after crime is over. The detailed report of a well trained security officer can go a long way toward catching the criminal vs. him getting away without anyone paying attention to specifics of what happend due to fear/panic. Not saying we are as important as LEOs, but sometimes a good assist is delivered from a Security Professional to help a Good LEO/Detective close in on the BG.
 

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I don't have a dog in..... But, I once was in the "office" area of the security desk to retrieve my badge I'd dropped. This was at shift change. The security officers, to my surprise, showed up with empty holsters. They retrieved there revolvers from a gun locker and only had them in their possession during there shifts.

I later became friends with one of these guards, and he explained that these were surplus junk revolvers, that were bought from PD transitioning to autos.

He said they didn't know what kind of gun they would get. Only that they were .38 spec. 6 shot with 4" barrels.

Knowing this, I wouldn't be so quick to throw this guy under the bus.
 
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