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During the second presidential debate, a friend of mine and I got in an argument about selling/ buying firearms at gun shows.
He said that at gun shows, we live in Kansas, many non-dealers set up tables or booths and sell guns to anyone who has the cash. It's been a few years since I've been to a gun show as I buy from my local dealer. But is he correct? I sold a couple of handguns individually a few years back but not at a gun show.

Pucketson
 

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Selling an occasional firearm in a private party sale is legal in many states. However, I would be very concerned about selling a table full of firearms as the Gun Control Act of 1968 states that persons engaged in the business of dealing in firearms must be licensed. And of course, to be licensed would require an FFL. Setting up a booth would very likely appear like the business of dealing in firearms. Setting up a booth sounds like conducting business.
 

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Any non-FFL gun show sales I've seen have been at booths selling everything but guns. But they may have one or two for sale from their personal collection. But as stated, if the ATF got a sniff of someone trying to make a business out of selling guns unlicensed, they would put an end to it.
 

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I have been to two gun shows. Bought a firearm at one from a dealer at a table. They sent me to FFL table at the show ( They had 5 FFLS doing the forms and background checks) I have seen PRIVATE people selling a personal firearm, they usually do their transactions in the parking lot. One on One face to face transactions in Texas are legal. I have sold two firearms in Face To Face private sales. No Paperwork for Background checks, but i am sure that neither where felons, and both had viable PICTURE ID's.

It's a JOKE this GUN SHOW or ON LINE LOOPHOLE. I don't see it !
 

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It's a JOKE this GUN SHOW or ON LINE LOOPHOLE. I don't see it !
It is already proven that criminals rarely get their weapons from gun shows or on line f/f sites like Armslist. But liberals want all firearms and ammunition sales to be regulated as its a huge cash grab opportunity. Look at the revenue some of these states are raking in on the CHL. (Florida charges $112 and have issued over 2 million of them. Do that math.) HRC wants a $25 gun tax. Do that math. The "loophole" is the cash loophole. Liberals don't want to get rid of the 2A...they want to tax it to death. I see an "assault weapon permit" in the future.
 

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When I started going to gun shows in the 90's, there were 'collectors' who had no FFL, selling firearms at tables. I'm not a seller or FFL so not up on the laws there, but there was something in the laws where you could sell something like up to 30 firearms without being licensed. Basically to trade/sell with other collectors freely. I bought a couple rifles this way. What these 'collectors' sold were mainly surplus firearms or Saturday night special type guns. I bought an SKS for $150 from a guy who had a table full of them and they were all u-pick at that price. Handled most of the Phoenix Arms, Bryco's, etc. this way too.

That doesn't exist in OR anymore and even private sales have to go through FFL. But some states still are doing it the old way, and they get all the flack for it. I think it's Indiana that gets blamed for all the crime guns in Chicago.
 

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During the second presidential debate, a friend of mine and I got in an argument about selling/ buying firearms at gun shows.
He said that at gun shows, we live in Kansas, many non-dealers set up tables or booths and sell guns to anyone who has the cash. It's been a few years since I've been to a gun show as I buy from my local dealer. But is he correct? I sold a couple of handguns individually a few years back but not at a gun show.

Pucketson
If you buy a table, any items that are not regulated by ATF can legally be sold, including ammo. If you have a $30 C&R license, you can sell any collector or relic listed firearm. If you are a non licensee selling new or used firearms that are not C&R or antique, you are engaged in business and need either an 01 or 07 FFL.

Almost every gun show has at least one ATF agent present. You might get by once or twice selling firearms without a license but could eventually get nailed. It takes ATF quite a while to put a case together but once they have collected enough evidence they will make their move.

If you only sell one or two guns in the parking lot, it's a private transfer as long as the buyer and seller are at a show and both have residency in that state. I wouldn't recommend you do it regularly though.
 
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Living in Florida I have bought a couple of guns where I have just given the money and they just handed the gun to me. Most of these are supposed to be private collections. This was at a gun show of the biggest gun club in the county does 2 times a year. I have not bought a gun in a couple years at one of these.
 

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During the second presidential debate, a friend of mine and I got in an argument about selling/ buying firearms at gun shows.
He said that at gun shows, we live in Kansas, many non-dealers set up tables or booths and sell guns to anyone who has the cash. It's been a few years since I've been to a gun show as I buy from my local dealer. But is he correct? I sold a couple of handguns individually a few years back but not at a gun show.

Pucketson
That would be correct if he was in Utah. I have bought a couple of guns from folks that set up tables and sold from their collection. no paper work.
 

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Living in Florida I have bought a couple of guns where I have just given the money and they just handed the gun to me. Most of these are supposed to be private collections. This was at a gun show of the biggest gun club in the county does 2 times a year. I have not bought a gun in a couple years at one of these.
One FFL dealer can have several tables each maned by a different person. They are all agents of the FFL and therefore would not need to be licensed themselves.

Auctioneers can also sell entire estate or consignment collections without a license.

A club selling guns would be no different as long as one person was an FFL.
 
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That's the way gun shows used to be in Texas. Back in the 70's& 80's when I was going to them it was a mix of
dealers and non-dealers with a lot of non-dealers just setting up a table and offering their stuff.
Then slowly the dealers began occupying more and more tables until it got to a point where it was just mostly dealers.
Maybe due to the increase in table and booth space rental fees...But prices climbed to retail prices and the good deals
weren't to be found as much as before. That's when I stopped going. If I'm going to have to pay a store price then I'll
skip the crowd, the parking PITA, the BS, and just go to the store.
 

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IMHO, the Internet has radically ruined the good ol'fashioned gun show. Even BIG shows (Tulsa, Louisville, etc.) are now covered-UP with photo-takin' Google gurus who can, in seconds, tell you; what it's worth, where to find another one & how much the last one sold for! Once upon a time, you could leverage your knowledge (between your ears) of, sayyy...old Walther mags & double your money all day long. Now? The best way to make a small fortune at a gun show is to start-out with... a LARGE fortune! :gah:
 

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State requirements differ but, for Federal, if you are "in the business" a FFL is required. This includes auctions and estate sales. The definition of being " in the business" hinges on intent to make a profit or earn income, there is no quantity involved.

Gun Show rules also affect what can be done. Many shows require a FFL to sell firearms. Others, especially those at gun clubs, state that all sales are treated as private sales and FFLs are not allowed.

So, for the OP, both sides are correct in this debate. The "gunshow loophole" is being able to buy from a private seller without background checks. Just as if you sold your old duck gun to your neighbor.

Jeff

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People often misunderstand the laws regard engaged in the business. It is possible to be convicted with as little as two sales but not be convicted with a hundred firearms sold. The reason, courts look at a totality of the circumstances and a major part of that is the sellers motivations. What is the reason you are selling that firearm is it to make money as a source of revenue or liquidate your collection even if you do make a profit.

I like to use the example of someone who has a FFL 03 and collects Mauser rifles. Not only does he collect Mauser rifles he wants and has multiple variants of every type of Mauser rifle adopted by a military, major or minor. This collection would consist of hundreds of rifles with most if not all of them appreciating in value. After a while our figurative collector gets bored with Mauser rifles and his interest shifts to Luger pistols. As such in order to start collecting Luger pistols he decides to completely liquidate his collection of Mauser rifles. So he goes to a local gun show and sets up a table with hundreds of rifles and he sells a few. When the next gun show he is their and the next one. Until he sells all his rifles and he makes money off of every single rifle. Legal or not? The correct answer, it is perfectly legal since our collector bought the firearms to collect and sold them to allow for another collection to start. It also doesn't hurt that this collection would have been acquired over many years.

What is illegal is devoting time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. Factors that might be considered; high volume and frequency of buying/selling (when combined with other factors), taking orders, offering to buy firearms to immediately resell, selling shortly after purchase, repeatedly selling same type of firearm, selling new firearms, ect.

ATF booklet on the subject. https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
 
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