[BRTCP88]

Hey, was reading the Disney world carry thread and saw someone say there isn't really anywhere you would have a solid backstop. So, I was wondering if you were in Disney World, or a similar situation, and a crazy ex-employee was going on a shooting spree and you got him in your sights, but the bullet might over penetrate and hurt innocent bystanders but not acting would allow the gunman to continue on his rampage and probably take out you and dozens of others, what would you do?

What if it wasn't a mass shooter, but a bank robber who's decided to start shooting people because the police have him surrounded?

I'm not asking to be facetious, I'm looking for discussion because I don't know what I would do.

 

[MedPig]

What if it wasn't a mass shooter, but a bank robber who's decided to start shooting people because the police have him surrounded?

I'm not asking to be facetious, I'm looking for discussion because I don't know what I would do.

Engaging a shooter while police are there? It won't end the way you think. As a former cop, you will be neutralized just as quickly as the shooter, and probably get mentioned on the evening news a a 'second shooter', who police are trying to link to the original crime.

If the pros are there, DO NOT decide to lend your expertise... :twak:

 

[JonInNY]

I probably would not shoot, unless my own life (or family member) was in immenent danger. If I were to miss, or kill someone in the process, I would probably be charged with the killing, and even if aquitted, would face civil suits. My life would be ruined.

My responsibility as a CCW citizen, is to protect myself and family, and not to be a LEO. I know that sounds cold and callous, but that's the responsibility we take when we decide to CCW. My 2 cents.

 

[BRTCP88]

Engaging a shooter while police are there? It won't end the way you think. As a former cop, you will be neutralized just as quickly as the shooter, and probably get mentioned on the evening news a a 'second shooter', who police are trying to link to the original crime.

If the pros are there, DO NOT decide to lend your expertise... :twak:

*facepalm* didn't think about that.

 

[BRTCP88]

I probably would not shoot, unless my own life (or family member) was in immenent danger. If I were to miss, or kill someone in the process, I would probably be charged with the killing, and even if aquitted, would face civil suits. My life would be ruined.

My responsibility as a CCW citizen, is to protect myself and family, and not to be a LEO. I know that sounds cold and callous, but that's the responsibility we take when we decide to CCW. My 2 cents.

OK, let's say you're the next target for the BG.

 

[MedPig]

OK, let's say you're the next target for the BG.

Entirely different. Have at him. :comeandgetsome:

BUT, the second he's down, if you see ANYTHING that looks like a uniform, dump your magazine, clear the weapon, make it VERY obvious you are not an active shooter...

Personally, the split-second he's down, I'd put the weapon on the floor, put a toe over it, to retain some control, and put my hands on my head while LOUDLY explaining what just happened. If a second shooter pops up, you can always go for your weapon, but *NOT* if a cop is there, it won't go well...

 

[MedPig]

*facepalm* didn't think about that.

I was on the job a year, I had a guy holding another one at gunpoint, using a .308. When we arrived, the 'bad guy' was unarmed, and the 'good guy' refused to drop his $2,000+ scoped rifle. I asked him how much it would be worth if we shot it and him, since all we had then were shotguns. He got the hint. :gah:

Turns out, the bad guy had been assaulting a woman, but on first arrival, it almost looked like the homeowner was going to execute him. :scruntiny:

:spankme: Mr. Gun Owner had some explaining to do...

 

[ImChad]

What would I do? Ask myself the question I always ask. "Am I in danger" if the answer is yes, I'm going to get out of danger, any way I can. If it's engaging, fine. If it's hiding, fine. I dont' carry to protect the sheeple, I carry to protect me and my family.

 

[Blue Jacket]

What if it wasn't a mass shooter, but a bank robber who's decided to start shooting people because the police have him surrounded?

You better make a good witness. If the cops are nearby, be an observer, hit the ground, follow the officers instructions, etc. Bank robbers don't have BR stenciled on their forehead. If you have a gun in hand and want to be a hero, prepare to met your maker.

Regarding the Disney World scenario, no way would I carry a firearm into that park packed with people. PERIOD! :nono: But for your sake, assuming it's a warm summer day, I'd be carrying my pocket LCP. So that means protection of my immediate family ONLY.

It really doesn't matter anyway. This is a question proposed on the internet. What if? Not one member knows for sure what he would do. Hopefully ones brain would engage and make the right call.

 

[Mic]

I CC for self protection and my family. All states have a clear "protection of others" law witch you should be familiar with.

As far as the "no clear backstop" issue, that depends on many factors such as caliber of the fire arm, ammunition, target range, moving or stationary, shooter proficiency, etc...etc... end state, you will live with the decisions you make

 

[MadMac]

Easy answer. If a shooter is going after me or my family, and my handgun is my final and only option, then it's the last option. If things are that crazy, I doubt you'll be analyzing the physics of caliber, back-stop, angle of shot, etc.

I am not a LEO, a LEO wannabe, or a superhero. It's not my job to chase down and perforate crazies, killers, or wackos at theme parks. Personally, I simply prefer to avoid theme parks, but that's just me.

 

[SIXTO]

Lets set aside the duty of a CCW just for a minute;

You guys are telling me that there is an active shooter (that mean he is actively shooting people) and you will not put him down due to backstop issues? Seriously?
You'll allow this guy to continue to kill people because you don't have a suitable backstop? A situation like this is not a range exercise. Its real world.

I'm not saying one should spray and pray, but this is a no win; risks will have to be taken to stop an active shooter. The only thing that's going to do it is an aggressive response.

 

[gottabkiddin]

If he's in my proximity and my family is in direct danger, I'm gonna close the distance between the two of us and take the idiot down by any means necessary. If I'm armed, then yes I'd fire on the BG from a squatted or kneed position where the open sky is my BD.

As far as the bank robber goes, let the law handle it... No brainer.:blink:

 

[mchasal]

BUT, the second he's down, if you see ANYTHING that looks like a uniform, dump your magazine, clear the weapon, make it VERY obvious you are not an active shooter...

Maybe a minor issue, but is this a good idea? Given an LEO presence I'd think you'd want to get that gun out of your hand ASAFP. Doing the manipulations to clear will obviously take some time and may appear as something different to the officer. Like you've got a jam and trying to get a shot off. I'd just engage any safety and lay the gun down.
Your primary concern in those 3 seconds is to not get shot. Once you have no weapon in hand, you can clear up who you are in a much better environment.

 

[xsigma40cal]

The first thing you should consider is the really the first rule of handling a gun in the first place. "Know what your shooting at before you shoot." I was at the Minn. State Fair this year with my nephews (im the fun uncle) and the same situation crossed my mind as I was carrying at the time. In a crowd full of people, you must be 110% confident of your skill and ability to hit the BG. I would have grabbed my young crew by the shirts and hauled it in the opposite direction. If followed, then its show time. Im not too sure about Florida law, but in MN, if you use deadly force to protect yourself,or stop a dangerous felony in progress, then you are exempt from criminal and civil penalties. The question that remains is if that rule can be applied to any unfortunate innocents that may be hurt as a result.

As for the BG being surrounded by the cops, drawing is the last thing you want to do. I mean c'mon theyre police, theyre trained to take down BG's, so let them do their jobs and dont play hero.

 

[MattInFla]

Lets set aside the duty of a CCW just for a minute;

You guys are telling me that there is an active shooter (that mean he is actively shooting people) and you will not put him down due to backstop issues? Seriously?
You'll allow this guy to continue to kill people because you don't have a suitable backstop? A situation like this is not a range exercise. Its real world.

I'm not saying one should spray and pray, but this is a no win; risks will have to be taken to stop an active shooter. The only thing that's going to do it is an aggressive response.

It's a big poo sandwich for sure. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

I'd engage. He's actively shooting people, and must be stopped.

Matt

 

[goldshellback]

It's my opinion if i was the target (or in iminate danger of being targeted) of some yahoo's bullet spraying, I'm probley shooting back.
An active shooter MUST be stoped and I'm not gonna think about backgrounds, overpenetration, or ballistics.

I don't EVER wanna find that out about myself though.

 

[Black Knight]

My opinion is that your first responsibility is to get your family and yourself out of harms way. Everything else is thirdly. Now if the active shooter prevents you from getting out of harms way you may need to remove the threat. Remember responding law enforcement will not be able to tell you from the actual threat and will respond accordingly. Until all potential threats are taken care of you will be treated the same as the actual threat. Do not refuse to obey the responding officers instructions. They are trained to remove armed threats that continue being threats and an unknown person with a gun in his hand is looked at as a threat. After everything is over then you can assert your innocent victim status. There have been many undercover officers shot by not responding to the instructions of responding uniformed officers. It is just as easy to mistake the legally armed citizen for the active shooter as it is a plain clothes or undercover officer.

 

[JimmyC4]

Lets set aside the duty of a CCW just for a minute;

You guys are telling me that there is an active shooter (that mean he is actively shooting people) and you will not put him down due to backstop issues? Seriously?
You'll allow this guy to continue to kill people because you don't have a suitable backstop? A situation like this is not a range exercise. Its real world.

I'm not saying one should spray and pray, but this is a no win; risks will have to be taken to stop an active shooter. The only thing that's going to do it is an aggressive response.

Exactly the words I was searching for as I go through this thread...it's a combat situation.

 

[aric]

With a handgun I still have the option to run or find cover. The handgun is an option when run for cover isn't working. To be honest, I don't carry the hardware for a prolonged firefight with a mass shooter, even on the occasion I have the 1911 and not the .38.