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I posted this on THR but thought I'd throw it in here also .

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One or two recent threads have got me to thinking about this.

I think it fair to say that if I am with or around folks I do not know (gun owners/shooters) - I have to assume some measure of incompetence. This is not to do with any ego thing - ''I am better than you'' ... just the simple fact that there do seem to be way too many gun owners around who really can be a danger. Both to themselves, and others.... the more so on average I think with the ''casual'' shooter/owner as against let's say - ''most of us here''.

Thus I do not feel it is an arrogant approach - more a case of standard situational awareness - preferable to a bullet in the vitals! One instance comes immediately to mind - when I was watching a guy prep' his gear on the line. He ''appeared'' good material. In his forties, and gear that said ''mature long time shooter''.

On watching however, he placed a loaded mag in his semi, and as re racked the slide, proceeded to sweep me and others as he looked around. Not even sure if finger was on or off trigger - but reaction was to bellow ... ''downrange only'' or some such. Got a look of shock from him, followed by a smile of attrition - he at least knew he'd done wrong.

The guys I coach NRA courses with - and a few select others - are about the only folks I'll turn my back on when shooting ... or when they are gun handling.

I don't think it's paranoid - been proved right too many times. Bottom line is it seems to me - a casual glance does not tell you anything about another shooter's competence - at all. So 'play it safe' is the way to go - our vigilance thus can help make up for deficiencies in another's skills, and maybe save a problem.
 

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I agree with you P95. As an instructor I have seen many cases of poor firearms handling skills. A visit to most indoor ranges will show how many negligent discharges have occurred on the line. ie. holes in the gun platform, sidewalls of each stall and overhead in the roof.

Remaining vigilant on a range is not only wise but the safest course of action.

I had a female during a training course that spun around in the shooting stall with her finger on the trigger of a Glock 19 because hot brass had gone down the front of her blouse. She was jumping up and down shouting how the hot brass was burning her.

I am frequently cautious of people who claim to be proficient with firearms. As with combat vets, those who say the most are often the least experienced.
 

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I am frequently reminded of this when I go to my local range. More than one of the shooting stations has a bullet hole through the top of the station. I am a little paranoid, to tell you the truth. If you spend much time at the range you pretty much see it all in a short period of time. When I first enter a range I normally hang my target, get all of my stuff (unloaded gun, loaded magazines, boxes of ammo, a rag and sometimes a roll of tape) layed out so I don't have to hunt for it during my shooting. If the previous occupant of my stall, or the ones on either side, didn't bother to clean up, I sweep the floor around where I will be standing. While doing all of that I will see who else is around me and try to assess whether they pose a danger, which would be hard to do while I am actually in the station shooting. That may seem anal to some but it's my normal routine and the range guys like it because I start and finish with a clean area. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Bumper - I'll hazard a guess that we could shoot side by side in a very relaxed manner! :smile:
 

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Gee Bumper, I think they call this sort of behavior........OMG......Personal Responsiblity.....How could you ever be so politically incorrect???

Shame on you. :biggrin:
 

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P95Carry said:
Bumper - I'll hazard a guess that we could shoot side by side in a very relaxed manner! :smile:
Thanks, P95Carry, I bet we could, too. :wink:

acparmed said:
Gee Bumper, I think they call this sort of behavior........OMG......Personal Responsiblity.....How could you ever be so politically incorrect???

Shame on you. :biggrin:
LOL, well, I like to think of it as personal responsibility over being anal. :rolleyes: But seriously, there are even more slobs out there than there are those that are unsafe. So many that much of the open desert is being closed off to shooting. :firedevil
 

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Good post there sure are soem peple who worry you ... Ive had more than my fair share kicked off the local range.

2 weeks ago i was in picking up some stuff not shooting and there was a big arugement going on come to find out they were throwning 3 guys off the range all 3 were police officers in the same city as the range and the owners 2 retired cops and 2 active worked with them....


Threw then off for unsafe gun handling
 

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I've encountered similar occurances at the Collin County Range I go to...the pistol range is a long open bench-type with no separation walls (cubicles). I will routinely approach my lane, as just look left and right to observe others on the firing line, to at least see how others are handling their weapons. Sometimes, there are only a couple of others there, and I'll assume responsibility as "Range Master" if the real one isn't there (they know me and have learn to trust me in that role). I've had occasion to remind someone to keep their weapon pointed downrange when trying to clear a jam. Fortunately, I've not experienced anyone accidently discharging inside the lanes, but it is always wise to be observant.
 

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P95Carry said:
I think it fair to say that if I am with or around folks I do not know (gun owners/shooters) - I have to assume some measure of incompetence.
I think this is the safe thing to do. At least until they prove competence. And sadly, even then we all make mistakes. :no1: Bottom line, down range, finger outside of the trigger guard till you're ready to fire!!
 

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P95Carry Good Thread Topic!

It is a SMART PERSON who keeps a KEEN AND WATCHFUL EYE on the armed folks that surround him/her UNTIL their exact skill & competence level is known.
I no longer shoot or train around other people (in general) ~ & part of the job of being a "Top Shelf" Firearms Instructor is to NEVER let your guard down.
 

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Excellent post P95 and your right on the money with your comments and observations. This is the reason i enjoy going to different gun schools, most of the time you are in a very controlled enviroment with like minded people who are there to learn and know the basic gun handling rules.As opposed to going to public gun ranges were everybody thinks they are a expert but in reality they are more dangerous to themselves and family members than to any BG.
 

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ramtough47 ~ Ditto:

"As opposed to going to public gun ranges were everybody thinks they are a expert but in reality they are more dangerous to themselves and family members than to any BG."
 

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Personally, I'd be leary about fully trusting anyone. I've seen highly experienced people have a brain fade and do unsafe things. Fortunately, they only violated one one rule of gun safety because if you break two or more or the rules, that's when tragedy occurs.
 

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Years ago I joined a gun club. The first thing I noticed when I walked into the range was every booth had numerous holes in it. Not 5 or 6 more like 15-20 and a lot of those were chest high. I joined another club as soon as my membership was over.
 

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I hate going down range during cease fire. I try to keep an eye on others around me when I do shoot on a public range. Usually just me and some close friends who know enough to handle the guns safely.
 

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you think it's bad at the range, and you want any old Dick or Harry actually CARRYING a ccw pc? I"ve never yet seen a qualification course that adequately taught safe gun handling. If one did, it would cost $2000.
 

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My LEO friends tell me that the Madison Police locker-room is rife with bullet holes all over the walls.

As you remember, we are also the city where our police chief hid his Glock in the oven, forgot it was there, and then baked it.
 

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Bud White-
they were throwning 3 guys off the range all 3 were police officers in the same city as the range
When I rode with a sheriffs department buddy of mine in Indiana, he was the chief firearms instructor, I think one of the most dangerous thing I did was help out with the qualifications, I always wore my vest for that.
 

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I have seen many fellow officers qualifying, and the safest place was right in front of them. I also worked two differant ranges, and bullet holes are quite common. I also threw an FBI agent off the range for safety violations.
 

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It's no surprize (however odd though) to anyone that's been around, that those who carry and depend on firearms as an occupation are often the worse in their gun handling and shooting skills!
 
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