[P95Carry]

Over time I have come across quite a few of these folks and still find them hard to understand.

Typically we see a reasonably accomplished shooter, possibly with a nice selection of guns, who competes and enjoys the recreational aspect. And yet - does not carry!!

I find this so hard to understand, particularly as here in PA we have shall issue. I mean, it really is no big deal to get fixed up with a CCW.

Talk to them and they acknowledge risk, the possibilities of ''problems'' and yet - they do not wish to carry. Geez, I find that so hard to comprehend. I mean - apart from some inconvenience (yeah - carry is a PITA if you look at the downsides re comfort etc) - why not do the ideal thing to possibly save your a$$ - if, heaven forbid, as I always say - something should go down.

Guys who have experience with guns and shooting are - surely - prime candidates? They already have skills and knowledge - sufficient at least to be competant. The excuse - like - ''well, I'd rather not'' is so lame it is incredible.

I guess I don't see there mindset - maybe that's all it is. Every person here in PA who carries, is one more person who can make the BG's think - twice or thrice - 'is armed crime worth it'? The deterrant value is IMO inestimable, even leaving aside the protection of self and those near and dear.

Oh well - for now at least - we have that freedom of choice!

 

[HotGuns]

The problem is that they just dont see the "need" to carry.

They usaully live in low crime areas, have good jobs, associate with people of like income and values, and have never expeirenced any personal dealing with thugs of any kind.

They are in condition "white" because they simply dont feel threatened.



Unfortunatley...it usually takes someone crapping in their cornflakes to get the point across...

 

[AZG23]

I dont get them either...then again....most folks think they are safe...and it wont happen to them. It will take something bad happening to them or a close loved one to jar them out of it most times....sometimes it wont...

 

[Euclidean]

I come from a household like that.

The short answer is that we're fed to believe so much crap about guns and their use. You wouldn't believe the number of things I learned about guns growing up that were just plain wrong.

I used to believe a .45 caliber pistol had knock down power.

I used to "know" that a 125 grain .357 Magnum JHP catridge was, statistically, the deadliest handgun load in existence.

I used to think that having a gun somewhere in the same town was enough.

The level of ignorance I grew up in was astounding. Sure we had a good assortment of guns, but we really had some very wrong ideas about how to use them. Not unsafe ideas mind you, but just plain wrong.

Besides we lived in the good neighborhood, drank our milk, and stayed in school.

It wasn't until high school I began to question it all. It wasn't until I was a full blown adult that I really got a firearms education and began to realize a lot of what I thought I knew was so wrong.

There are other reasons too.

My mother has medical problems that would make using a gun difficult at best and just feels like she has better quality of life not doing things that make her hands hurt.

My father can't carry at work, flies a lot, etc.

My sister, God bless her, is a hoplophobe.

My brother is underage. I will give him a gun one day, a stainless Ruger revolver in .357 magnum because he won't ever buy one for himself. He will go shoot it once a month or once every other month because it's cool to shoot a gun. Odds are he'll probably actually be a better shot than many police officers with that one particular gun. It will be the only gun he'll have besides his Marlin. He won't think to get another one and he'll seldom clean it. He might get a permit if it's quick and easy. He won't be bothered to undergo an expensive 4 month ordeal or fill out a long form.

You deal with it and realize that it's their decision to make. You realize your parents are getting old and predictable and they stay out of saloons, and at least they have guns at home. Your sister's promised boyfriend at least has CCW interest. You give her a good flashlight and a Stinger and some pepper spray and a training can, and take some solace in the fact she's a fast runner and can throw a straight punch. Your brother won't ever be as dedicated as you are but he's not a hopeless case even if he'll never take care of the legal paperwork.

 

[Q-ball]

I know LEO's that don't carry off duty, they don't see the need. Overall, the ones that don't want to carry.....that's their problem.

 

[AZG23]

I know LEO's that don't carry off duty, they don't see the need. Overall, the ones that don't want to carry.....that's their problem.

yup...my wifes Dad is like this....locks it away when not on duty...he never took them shooting or any education about firearms either...

 

[rfurtkamp]

I think what much of the problem is simply revolves around the fact that to many shooters, guns are just tools - and to them, they're tools for their sport.

They can't see them in any other light.

 

[Scott]

Another perspective.

I finally received a straight answer from a guy I know like this, won't get a permit and carry but is a "gun guy". He has a bit of a temper and what he is really afraid of is that he would shoot someone in a rage. His "excuse" is that he doesn't see the purpose or reason. After I knew him for a year, and had been working on him to get a permit and carry, he "came clean". Maybe another excuse, but I did get to see his temper flare once and he is probably right about not carrying. He cools down as quick as he heats up, but that few minutes of hot would likely lead to something bad.

-Scott-

 

[QKShooter]

Blind Rage

Anybody that goes into "Blind Rage Mode" and cannot control their actions AKA really goes "out of control" obviously should not carry.

Ditto: Hotguns on the reason why some folks just don't carry.
And then there is the semi~superstitious reason.
If I carry a gun then something WILL happen to me and I might need to actually have to use it....which I won't ever do.

 

[FortyFive]

Perhaps one area of concern people have about carrying a firearm is liabilty. They may not want to get envolved with the legal tangle of carring a gun with them. If you have went 30 or 40 years without carrying a gun and your life style don't take you into bad areas why change now???
As we are pro-carry many may own guns but not want that responsibilty.

 

[OD*]

Chris,

I believe you've nailed it with, mindset.

For whatever reason, they just can't get their head around the idea of it.

 

[CombatEffective]

Many of the shooters at my club shoot only for peronal enjoyment. They only care about making tiny little groups and handloading to get them. Hardly any of them would know what to do if faced with a threat.

 

[FortyFive]

CE thats a very good point! Many of the older long time shooters were bulls eye shooters. Their guns were made by the old time smiths and the people who used them were excellant shots. They had no interest in carrying a gun for protection, some of these guys/most were ww2 vets. So maybe category of shooters contribute to people who don't want to carry. In some respects that hurts us a group because they have no interest in the crazy laws being developed by anti-gunners. At least out here it may play out that way.

 

[CombatEffective]

FortyFive,

It gets even worse with the shotgunners. Many of them think the only firearms in the world are O/U "B" guns to shoot flying pieces of clay.

 

[P95Carry]

Great replies guys and thx.

FortyFive - yes indeed I think you are right that some at least may fear the legal aspects to excess - their choice of course and I maybe should not push so hard with my questioning of shooters not carrying.

I am very aware of the legal aspects - I think we all are but bottom line - this is our lives we are thinking about - and those of our loved ones. If any shooter was given a choice - the old adage brought in - ''Do you prefer the thought of being carried by six, than being judged by 12''??

Statistically of course for a great many folks - they can stay in condition white all their lives and also never suffer any harm - well good for them I say - wish it could be the case for every man Jack of us... guaranteed!

As CE mentions and this ties in with the mindset deal - so many shooters do not think beyond the loading and range visits - plus the other point raised re some shotgunners - nothing exists outside of that! And that includes 2A issues too - if they even know of the 2A that is!!!

 

[DM]

I had someone ask me not too long ago why I choose to carry a gun.My response was simple,I'm making the choice to never be a willing victom of a violent crime.Sure ,I haven't had a need for it in all the years I've been alive,but that doesn't mean I won't have a need for it in the future.I do believe that it comes down to making that choice. If presented with the threat of a violent crime you will be either a willing victom or an unwilling victom. I choose to be the latter.

 

[HotGuns]

I didnt realy feel the "need" to carry a gun until several years ago when I became a part time deputy sheriff and actually got to deal with the bottom segment of society that I never knew existed.

I was very fortunate in the aspect that all of my life I was raised in good neighborhoods with good schools and I was never really subjected to any form of poverty or never even knew anyone that was. The only exposure to the "law" that I ever had was when a cop would come to school to give a presentation on drugs or something of that sort. I had a friend whos uncle was a city cop and I always thought it was cool for him to carry a gun and have a fast car. The only crime we ever came into contact with was from reading the local paper or watching the 6 o'clock news and hearing about it.

I eventually joined the Navy and was exposed to all kinds of things. I got to visit 17 different countries and experience real poverty in all forms...not the welfare induced laziness that we see here in the states, where even they would be considered rich in many countries.

After dealing with murderers, rapists,child abusers, and every other sort of scumsucking bottom dweller that preys upon society, I came to realize that there are people out there with NO respect for anything, themselves included. There are people that will kill you and think nothing of it. There are people out there that stay so hyped up on drugs that they may not even remember killing you. There are those that will rob,rape and kill you and leave your bloody carcass laying in the street and laugh about it when telling their friends.

I've got to where I never leave the house without my gun. I've arrested enough people that in this smallish town, its just a matter of time till I have a serious runnin with someone that feels like I did him/her wrong by arresting them and putting them in jail.

Now that I know what society has to offer, I will never again be unarmed. With the recent activities in terrorism around the world, the biggest unanswered question a terroirst can have is who might shoot them if they decide to stike a blow against America for allah... so it only makes sense for those that can to be armed at all times.

As for the criminal element, the only thing they fear is dying. They dont fear the cops, the dont fear the law and to them prison time means 3 square meals and a roof over their heads with free medical attention. Ive had more than one crook in jail tell me that they eat better and live better in jail than they do out on the street.

With that being said...only a fool that knows how hard the world can be would choose to be unarmed. There are many good folks that live in ignorance of the world around them and have no reason to even think that things could change in the blink of an eye.For them, it would take a life threatening event to "wake" up.

As for me...I choose to have the means to defend myself, my loved ones or even those around me is some proffesional thug decides to get stupid on me.

 

[CombatEffective]

I've been there HotGuns. I hadn't been on the job that long when I ran into a guy I arrested out in public. He had plead guilty that very day to a DUI charge (my first arrest out of training). He was actually going to fight the charge in court, but he showed up to court wearing his Miller Light shirt (he was a delivery driver for them). Yup, a Miller Light shirt to a DUI trial. His lawyer took one look at that and convinced him to plead out. His conviction cost him his job.

Anyway, that night I took my wife out to dinner. Guess who was sitting at the next table. Thankfully nothing happened, but it was an eye opener for me.

 

[P95Carry]

HG - great post - most enlightening and I am with you all the way :smile:

 

[ramtough47]

Good thread PT95 and you and the rest are right on the money with your comments and description of our fellow citizens who should know better, but for whatever reason have decided not to carry. To them and anyone else just remember this"you won't get the chance to pick the time and place where you may become a victim or sheep-dog". Most of us are hard working,honest,law-abiding citizen who are fortunate to live in "good neighborhoods" or in peaceful country settings.What we must always remember, is to be vigiliant,careful,watchful because the BG out there may not be able to do reading,writing and arthmetic but their survival skills are way up there and they know the difference between....I don't have that, but those folks[over in that nice neighborhood]they have it and i want it[regardless if the victims they have picked out have it or not] .Just my .02 worth.