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Never thought of it like that, but ya, it makes sense to me. You're pretty good with them nunchucks Howard. I tried em once about 40 years ago. Didn't go so well. Lol.
 

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Never thought of it like that, but ya, it makes sense to me. You're pretty good with them nunchucks Howard. I tried em once about 40 years ago. Didn't go so well. Lol.
Believe me, when I first started training with them I inflicted many an injury upon myself.

Howard
 

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I trained in Karate' to San-dan, including Kobudo weapons, and Goshin Budo to Ni-dan,. I went on to train in other arts that either did not have ranks, or did have them, but I was not as concerned with testing for rank after my Karate' experience.

One thing I was always dismayed about is that traditional martial arts, still today, avoid teaching or encouraging firearms use. They even discouraged it, like firearms would be an unnecessary crutch for a martial artist. They will teach firearm defenses, but not the active use of firearms in a martial setting. Similarly, most firearms defensive training avoids teach any H2H, as if you will never have to fight to get time and space to draw your gun.

To underscore your point about keeping your weapons well maintained, I like the story of Hiroo Onoda, the Japanese officer who fought on in the Philippines for 29 years after the war was over, because he had been told to keep fighting until ordered to stand down, no matter what. He kept conducting raids for almost three decades and the authorities could not catch him. Anyhow, when he finally surrendered, his rifle was in immaculate condition, despite frequent use for all that time.
 

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I trained in Karate' to San-dan, including Kobudo weapons, and Goshin Budo to Ni-dan,. I went on to train in other arts that either did not have ranks, or did have them, but I was not as concerned with testing for rank after my Karate' experience.

One thing I was always dismayed about is that traditional martial arts, still today, avoid teaching or encouraging firearms use. They even discouraged it, like firearms would be an unnecessary crutch for a martial artist. They will teach firearm defenses, but not the active use of firearms in a martial setting. Similarly, most firearms defensive training avoids teach any H2H, as if you will never have to fight to get time and space to draw your gun.

To underscore your point about keeping your weapons well maintained, I like the story of Hiroo Onoda, the Japanese officer who fought on in the Philippines for 29 years after the war was over, because he had been told to keep fighting until ordered to stand down, no matter what. He kept conducting raids for almost three decades and the authorities could not catch him. Anyhow, when he finally surrendered, his rifle was in immaculate condition, despite frequent use for all that time.
Not being snippy - just idly curious. Any idea where he might have got ammo for frequent use ( assuming it was his service rifle ) over almost three decades?
 

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Not being snippy - just idly curious. Any idea where he might have got ammo for frequent use ( assuming it was his service rifle ) over almost three decades?
When he surrendered, he still had about 500 rounds and some grenades. Keep in mind, the Japanese had held the island before the Allies forced them out. They probably left ammo all over the place. Onoda's team probably snuck around at night and found abandoned ammo caches, but I don't know for sure. FWIW, his rifle was a Type 99 Arisaka short rifle in 7.7x 58 Arisaka.

It is quite a story and Onoda had an interesting life after his surrender.
 

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I think that from an absolute literal sense.. yes, fighting with a gun can be a kwan of sorts. I would not say that it is intellectually dishonest to call fighting with a gun and the skills associated with that process to be a martial art. I think you can absolutely call it that in a literal sense. If you can accept Kyudo as being a form of martial art then I think other ranged projectile weapons ( like guns) could fit within that category. That said, you may be planting yourself firming on the slippery slope. Is fighting with a cannon a martial art.. how about a catapult? As far as common language is concerned or as far as original construction of the word/term is concerned.. no, gunfighting doesn't fit with that particular lexicon. Personally, I tend to be a originalist in regards to language and terms and not an innovator.
 

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I drove two sons to martial arts classes three time a week for five years so they both could earn their black belts. One big thing I remembered from the self-defense part of the instruction: you may be able to run from an attacker with a knife, but one that has a firearm presents an entirely different threat. It's hard to outrun a bullet.
 

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I like a definition of martial arts from Robert Rousseau who has studied multiple martial arts and was senior writer for MMA Fighting. He says, "The term martial arts refers to all of the various systems of training for combat that have been arranged or systematized. Generally, these different systems or styles are all designed for one purpose: physically defeating opponents and defending against threats." So that would include fighting with all kinds of weapons.

I will say from personal experience that I was a black belt in Karate' when I was learning to be a bombardier in the A-6 Intruder. I saw a lot of similarity: There were parallels to Karate's formalized etiquette, the continual practice of basics, forms, drills, mental conditioning and camaraderie. I see every reason to consider any systematized combat discipline to be a martial art.
 

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Here's my instructor for the few years I was involved in Tae Kwon Do. An outstanding instructor and a real stand up man. I was under his tutelage in Annandale, VA from 1970 to the end of 1972. I have long thought I should have stayed with it.

https://www.nationalkarate.com/about/masters/john-worley/
 

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Good topic Howard and nice job with the nunchaku!

I agree, any art that is designed for combat is an art of war by definition and a weapon is a weapon whether it's a rock tied to a stick, a sword, or a modern firearm. It's not about the weapon used, it's about the fight. The art part is one's mastery and integration of the various elements involved no matter what tool is used. I don't believe the actual meaning of the term has changed at all but only the popular (mis)conception of it. It was mostly marketed in the West as a way of building character and handling bullies although there seems to be a bit of a revival in the martial spirit in the last decade or so.

Speaking of integration, note that most of the time your handgun will be in your strong (dominant) hand leaving fending off, grabs, joint locks, and such like to be accomplish with your off hand. (Without shooting yourself, I might add.)
 

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I'm a pretty simple guy. If it involves fighting - weapon or not, it is martial. Although a lot of it certainly doesn't qualify as art. To me pistolcraft done well is a martial art.
 
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