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Shooting Two Guns, Hollywood Style? (just for fun)

5K views 63 replies 35 participants last post by  bugboy  
#1 ·
Watching 'Red 2' with Willis, Malcovich, and Byung-Hun Lee (slow day, waiting for snowplows to finish)...

Do you ever train, even for a lark shooting two handguns? Would you ever consider in certain scenarios shooting two?

If so, how would you do it? Just use as two one-armed shooting style, crossing arms Equilbrium style?

I've tried it at the range and thought it wouldn't be hard to just stay on the paper but it's not simple.

Again, just for fun.
 
#3 ·
I have done the hondo role a lot, just for fun. It always gets some looks at the range....
 
#4 ·
it is fun. if you go slow and aim with each one it's basically just an exercise in one-hand shooting, weka and strong, at the same time. also a good exercise in shoulder movement lol.

We did let a girl shoot a pair of 9mm once like that when we were teenagers. She just started blasting, and she got bent backwards so bad, her weak hand got pushed back so far, on her last few shots she was getting dangerously close to shooting her own strong hand, or especially her last two shots with the weak hand pistol almot hit the back of the slide of the strong hand gun.

We all were kind of like.... Yeah.... let's not do that again....

In the 5 years I have known my wife I have not done it, she has not asked, and I won't encourage it. maybe some day....
 
#6 ·
Badger, add Face Off to your list. You can currently stream it on Netflix.
Not only does it feature two pistols, one for each hand, they are custom 1911's :biggrin2:
You can watch a two pistol reload, too.

But no, I haven't tried it myself. If I try it and like it I might have to get me one of these tattoos :wink:
 

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#7 ·
What I found odd is that though you can do 'no sights point shooting' without much difficulty with a one-handed grip and one gun, it's almost impossible (for me) to do point shooting and get it on the paper with two guns. It's as though the focus or aim is too split.
 
#8 ·
Recent pic of me
:danceban:

Kidding of course


Sure I have done it .. But no point no aiming reallying just spray and pray .. But fun yes esp with twin mac 10 :rolleyes:
 
#9 ·
Red and Red 2 are some fun movies. Of course it seems most movies with guys wielding dualies would be. I would like to have a matching pair of pistols because it looks odd if they are different when playing Cool guy at the range :image035:
 
#10 ·
Having read all the negatives about spray and pray using two guns, or having to look at either or both back and forth, let me just state this and then provide the evidence to support it so people don't automatically claim BS.

I developed what's now called EPV [ enhanced peripheral vision and copyrighted ] It involves two guns shot simultaneously on two different threats. It took me a few range sessions and a couple thousand rounds of ammo before I hit on how the body can do this reliably with little time on the skill. In fact, I get students to do just this [ as it helps them develop their off hand shooting at the same time and to further expand the peripheral vision skill Quick Kill Pistol utilizes.

Here's the narrative on how I came to what you see on the vid


Enhanced Peripheral Vision [ EPV ]

Wrote this in June 2006. Since then it's been introduced into the pistol training program having found a reliable quick way to get students the same skill near instantly.

Enhanced Peripheral Vision TM ©

In 1981 I was taught how to use my peripheral vision while shooting shotguns, rifles and pistols. The skill was called instinct shooting by Bobby Lamar “Lucky” McDaniel, who was known to have developed the technique in what the U S Army later was to name Quick Kill after adopting the technique for it’s rifle program in the late 1950’s.

Instead of using direct vision sighting and utilizing the sights on a rifle or pistol, we were taught to use a narrow range of our naturally occurring peripheral vision to “see” the end of the barrel/front sight while staying threat focused with our direct vision at all times.

These peripheral reference points from the end of the barrel/front sight to the intended target for the pistols, rifles and shotguns make the techniques repeatable and reliable. Once the reference from the weapon to the target is established peripherally, one fires and hits the intended target.

I became so familiar with using peripheral vision that it became a part of my subconscious and as natural to use as anything that can be done without conscious effort. Things like driving a car and riding a bike are easier the more we perform the activity. This use of the peripheral vision to verify the relationship between the weapon and the intended strike point became no less automatic over the years of using it with firearms of all kinds.

Late in the year of 1991, I was getting bored with shooting a handgun using Quick Kill. It had been 10 years since being taught to use my natural abilities. It did not require any effort to make hits, required little to no practice on a regular basis, and I needed something to stimulate my mind further where handguns was concerned.

I had taught a police officer earlier that year how to use two kali/escrima sticks simultaneously in combat. Over 10 weeks he had become fairly ambidextrous and had developed enough skill in his off hand/arm to work the stick as well as his strong hand/arm. He was able to use a single stick in either hand proficiently and could move the stick from one hand to the other without loss of any dexterity, coordination or speed.

When I realized what the officer was capable of doing, it dawned on me that I had also walked that path a decade before when I had been trained in double stick work but I had not realized just how much improvement in use of the off hand had come from the double stick training then or over the subsequent years.

I determined I would work on developing my shooting skills using two guns simultaneously, one in each hand at combat distances based on what I had observed with the police officer. This would be interesting to say the least. Could I develop the use of the off hand with a handgun to a level of proficiency like the sticks had shown us? This was something to work on that would take the boredom with handguns I had been experiencing away and it just seemed like it would be a lot of fun trying even if the results were poor. It would challenge my mind to work again using handguns.

I went to the range and shot with a gun in each hand at one target. I used two model 36 Smith and Wesson snub-nosed revolvers initially. In short order, I could shoot both at the same time onto a threat 4-6 feet out and keep the shots centered on the target. I only had one threat to look at so I could stay threat focused. Using the technique Lucky McDaniel had shown us worked with two guns pretty good. I moved the target out to about 10 feet with the same stellar results, then 12 feet and still the hits were there every time. I was using the narrow range of peripheral vision that Lucky’s threat/target focused method used, the guns well below line of sight and seen in that comfortable narrow range of my peripheral vision.

It was time to try this on two targets with the two guns at the same time. I put up a second “threat” target and both were moved back in to the 4-6 foot range. Initially I place the stands so they touched one another so the threats were less than four feet center of chest to center of chest. Initially I tried to just get the guns up and check their positions individually on the threats, then fire simultaneously. That worked pretty good, as would be expected, by first verifying individually that the guns were where they needed to be before firing.

Though I had good results that way, it was not going to be something I could use in battle on the streets if I had to. The time to physically verify the two guns individually first would get you killed. Still this was promising so I determined I needed to keep working at it.

I found myself at the range again the next week setting up two more threat targets. I was using full size silhouette/body targets at the same distance of about 4-5 feet away and about four feet apart from the centers of the chests. I worked hard that day on developing this skill. I tried looking at one threat and hitting both, that didn’t give me reliable center hits on the threat I wasn’t looking at very often. I tried looking at the left one and hitting both, then the right one and hitting both, alternating between them with varied results that were better but not what they needed to be.

Then I tried to focus/look at neither of the two threats but look between them with direct vision. That seemed very promising in multiple runs. The hits were very good, but the range was short and the threats close together. I was onto something here. If I didn’t look at either of the threats directly, I got better hits on both at the same time. I was definitely onto something but I didn’t know what, it was too new to understand at the time. I was using “multiple threat focus” TM © and still using the peripheral vision of Quick Kill to “see” the guns, though the narrow peripheral vision range of the one threat/one gun Quick Kill technique had to be expanded.

I moved the threats farther apart by a few feet at the same distance and tried this again. Looking at neither of the threats directly, nor the guns, I worked it slowly and in a few runs found the hits were centered on each simultaneously again. My mind was figuring out that the narrow range of peripheral vision used in Quick Kill could be expanded, and the gun/s did not have to be directly below my eyes or line of sight to use the peripheral vision to “see” the guns at the same time. This was getting really interesting to say the least.

I moved the threats out to 10 feet and moved them about 10 feet apart. Reliable center hits fell apart again. More work would be necessary, but I was on the right road to getting solid reliable hits shooting two threats at the same time with one gun in each hand. I went home for the day to think about what I was doing here.

It was not too long before I was back at the range. I could not stop thinking about what I was onto here and I was anxious to work this out to a reliable system of hits on two threats at the same time from street combat distances where the threats were a good distance apart from one another.

Next post will be the vid of the skills and some student aar's on this skill they were given
 
#16 ·
Thanks, check post 15 vid of the skills being performed. You can see I'm quite comfortable wringing the steel and there's no hesitation once guns come on threat.

Now perhaps some will remember I said I'd carry two 5 shooters, one for each hand, in the back pockets of the jeans. I have options, and that's a good thing.
 
#15 ·
An aar on the EPV skill from a 2013 course:

I also left out a skill we worked on last weekend, and it was a doozy!

DUAL WIELDING/GUNS AKIMBO: A gun in each hand, fired simultaneously, hitting COM on two targets 5 feet apart from a distance of 8-10 feet. Every last person who tried the skill could accomplish it, many on their very first try!


Now on to the vid of the skill. I shot this just a few weeks ago, very easy to acquire the EPV skills now that I developed a method for getting others to it in short order. It's not rocket science but I did have to think outside the box and had the benefit of a decade of peripheral vision shooting.

Two guns on one plate threat would be far too easy for my students who've been given the skill demonstrated here lol

 
#17 ·
Dual-wielding? Yep. When I was young, out on our place in the middle of nowhere, with no one around to see but a cousin or three, we'd indulge in goofy stuff, generally with a pair of Smith & Wesson .38 revolvers or a pair of Colt .45 automatics.

All that "experience" served me in good stead when it was time to wield a pair of pre-World War II Smith & Wesson .44 Specials a few years ago. Someone had to go and snap a photo. Check out that form ... and the silly grin.




 
#21 ·
I had to chuckle. I just watched a Mythbusters episode where they tackled this same thing. They had a blast doing it too, but the Range Officer that was with them got a little concerned.

 
#22 ·
Sitting here just sitting here on the Group W bench I am fairly confident I could hit COM from 8 to 10 feet shooting 2 guns with both hands. Right here it's 12 feet to my front door in my chair. I can hit a man sized target with the High Standard or my 1911 no problemo.

Now I think what BJ is discussing is shooting 2 guns simultaneously with 2 hands. This would be exceedingly difficult for me to do so with ANY degree of accuracy. Many years ago (like 30+) for a lark while at Butler Pit (a local free range) I tried shooting 2 rifles from the hip. My targets were pop bottles and gallon milk jugs fulla water on the ground. I couldn't hit for ship. I could put rounds ALL OVER the place but not IN THE PLACE! Shooting 2 pistols at a paper target at 8 to 10 feet would be a real challenge. I would need a trainer in this and buku ammo also my trainer would HAVE TO buy my supper or we may part under less than friendly terms.

I've seen RED the first movie. LOVED IT! That little gal Mary Louise Parker.....oh man oh man OH MAN!!!!! She IS the cats meow!!! She is so unequivocally FINE!!!!! I would be the most happy camper on this planet were she or a clone what looked just like her was my sweetie. She could talk me into disengaging myself from the bad habits my MOM couldn't break me of.

I was not aware of RED 2. I hope it's on YT cuz I ain't on NetFlix and gots no ideer what *streaming* is. No clue whatsoever.:doh::blink::pat::banghead:

Thanks BJ. You're ALWAYS GOOD for the weird and the neato coolo weirdo...... Sometimes I wish we lived in the same time zone. I'd love to bend your ear over breakfast or out on the firing line. I now get nationwide free long distance with my phone company. For the first time in ages I am NOT mad at my phone service provider. Yahoo!
 
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#25 ·
Sitting here just sitting here on the Group W bench I am fairly confident I could hit COM from 8 to 10 feet shooting 2 guns with both hands. Right here it's 12 feet to my front door in my chair. I can hit a man sized target with the High Standard or my 1911 no problemo.

Now I think what BJ is discussing is shooting 2 guns simultaneously with 2 hands. This would be exceedingly difficult for me to do so with ANY degree of accuracy. Many years ago (like 30+) for a lark while at Butler Pit (a local free range) I tried shooting 2 rifles from the hip. My targets were pop bottles and gallon milk jugs fulla water on the ground. I couldn't hit for ship. I could put rounds ALL OVER the place but not IN THE PLACE! Shooting 2 pistols at a paper target at 8 to 10 feet would be a real challenge. I would need a trainer in this and buku ammo also my trainer would HAVE TO buy my supper or we may part under less than friendly terms.

I've seen RED the first movie. LOVED IT! That little gal Mary Louise Parker.....oh man oh man OH MAN!!!!! She IS the cats meow!!! She is so unequivocally FINE!!!!! I would be the most happy camper on this planet were she or a clone what looked just like her was my sweetie. She could talk me into disengaging myself from the bad habits my MOM couldn't break me of.

I was not aware of RED 2. I hope it's on YT cuz I ain't on NetFlix and gots no ideer what *streaming* is. No clue whatsoever.:doh::blink::pat::banghead:

Thanks BJ. You're ALWAYS GOOD for the weird and the neato coolo weirdo...... Sometimes I wish we lived in the same time zone. I'd love to bend your ear over breakfast or out on the firing line. I now get nationwide free long distance with my phone company. For the first time in ages I am NOT mad at my phone service provider. Yahoo!
Not true, you'd be shooting two guns on two threats in minutes and save the ammo if you were in front of me. Students get this in minutes, some on their first try under my guidance and instruction of the "how to" [ which is easier than anyone could imagine and took me some time to figure out decades ago ].
 
#23 ·
That takes me back. Usedta LOVE the Mythbusters show. Why the heck won't just one of the cable/dish/sat outfits offer a deal where the subscribers choose THEIR CHOICE of 10 channels to receive for $20 a month. Park all of the bogus BS at the curb and give me (and the nation at large) what we WANT!!!!!! I KNOW what I would take.

1 SPIKE
2 SCI FI
3 History channel
4 TNT
5 USA
6 A&E
7 The Documentary channel
8 Starz or Encore or channel 12-1
9 The Weather Channel
10 One local channel. Here it would be KIRO KING or KOMO
 
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#24 ·
I'm in! I would add Velocity and Discovery to that and maybe the Military channel.
I'm on the fence about the local channels. Maybe WMUR in Manchester.

You do know that if they allowed us to pick and choose like that, it wouldn't be $20. The best way to do that is to stream the video's though an Apple TV or Roku but with this Net Neutrality thing, I'm not sure if it will stay free for long.

Ok, back on topic. Sorry for the side track.
 
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#26 ·
Like most "Hollywood" fictions, it looks cool, but I think it only works with blank-firing pistols.
I still laugh when is see Amy Acker doing that on Person of Interest. The guns hardly recoil!
 
#27 ·
Did you watch the video of me shooting two different semis with live ammo on steel in this thread? It works, and not just with blanks as the movies use. Students are able to repeat what you see in the video within minutes of narrating the "how to" to them.