[smolck]

So I have only seen a couple ammo tests on youtube that I trust from a 3" barrel gun. Both did well enough I guess in jello and denim but the penetration was only 11.75 inches. Good in jello, how about bone, muscle, and organs?

I added a Kimber Ultra series to my collection today, and am seriously considering FMJ for SD purposes. Of course nobody wants to get shot by ANY bullet, but do you think I am being irresponsible by doing so? My thought process is, the .45acp is pretty large already, and FMJ will likely get to the vitals through bone. Guess I am just trying to avoid the horror of (God forbid) one day dumping 3 or 4 shots into center mass on a bad guy and then he doesn't go down.

Thoughts?

 

[buckeye .45]

Pistols are terrible fight stoppers to begin with.

I keep JHPs in my Glock 36. The only reason I wouldn't keep JHPs in any of my defensive pistols of any caliber would be if it had issues feeding reliably, but then it wouldn't be one of my defensive pistols.

 

[lyodbraun]

Get any of the major MFG's JHP's that are on the market and you will be fine, I see no reasons to use FMJ's, I have tested lots of rounds out of my G30SF and almost all the rounds worked very well, only had a handful of them that fail to work as intended... so in a nut shell get some good JHP's Speer makes a gold dot that's designed for short barrels, and as always the Federal HST's work great out of any size barrel... as well as the 185g solid copper barnes bullets...

 

[gallardo.g23]

ya i would also probly go with fmjs out of a shorter barrel. for my glock 21 it has 4.5 inch barrel and i use jhps or fmjs. with my 40 and 9 i also trust fmjs or jhps for self defense. target ammo is just as deadly as jhps, and their cheaper!

 

[Kilowatt3]

230 gr. HST or Ranger-T all the way. They'll penetrate plenty. No need to handicap yourself with FMJ's.

 

[buckeye .45]

ya i would also probly go with fmjs out of a shorter barrel. for my glock 21 it has 4.5 inch barrel and i use jhps or fmjs. with my 40 and 9 i also trust fmjs or jhps for self defense. target ammo is just as deadly as jhps, and their cheaper!

Except JHPs create a larger permanent wound cavity, and at the same time help decrease your liability by reducing the risk of over-penetration in a self defense shooting.

 

[65108]

Why would anyone use FMJ in a defense pistol regardless of the caliber? JHPs all the way.

 

[Ducmonster]

My only concern with going FMJ would be penetration through walls depending on where I found myself needing to use my gun. I'm thinking if the bad guy takes three or four 45 caliber JHP's to the chest and they somehow all hit bone it's still gong to suck real bad for him.

 

[nathanjns]

I think your reasoning may be sound. An expanding projectile at low velocity may indeed fail to penetrate adequately. The 45 is of sufficient diameter that I would go for reliable feeding and adequate penetration. If I thought I could get that with a JHP, I would use one. If not, FMJ would be in my gun.

 

[TopGunRMNP]

I keep this in all my pistols, especially my CCW 3.2" It has the best ballistics in any short barrel .45 and second best ballistics of any JHP .45 I know of.

 

[Holmes375]

I keep a large stash of 230 FMJ for survival purposes. It will function reliably in a wide variety of pistols as well as pistols that may not be maintained as well as I'd like.

For tactical defence I carry 230 JHP (Golden Sabre), in my full size 45 auto and 165 gr +P JHP (Corbon), in my Kimber UC II. The short barrelled lightweight pistol digests the Corbon rounds reliably and they're manageable for follow-up hits.

The military is restricted to FMJ ammunition and the reliability of such ammo cannot be denied which is why I have a bunch of it stashed. But for tactical defence in the real world I'll take high quality specialised hollow point ammunition most every time.

 

[gallardo.g23]

you use what you want ill use what i want. a 45 fmj will leave a larger hole than a 9mm jhp wont it ? so it depends on what caliber your using. and you also take the risk of under penetrating your target as well.

 

[buckeye .45]

you use what you want ill use what i want. a 45 fmj will leave a larger hole than a 9mm jhp wont it ? so it depends on what caliber your using. and you also take the risk of under penetrating your target as well.

I will use what I want, and you can do so as well. But, a JHP of equal caliber will leave a larger permanent wound cavity that an FMJ of the same caliber, which makes it preferred if the goal is to stop a threat as quickly as possible because it gives you a higher chance of hitting major blood vessels and vital organs.

As I said in my first post, pistol are poor fight stoppers to begin with, they are a compromise. You are giving up power as opposed to a rifle, for something much smaller, lighter, and easy to carry.

How much velocity do people suppose they are losing between a 3 inch barrel and 4-5 inch one?

 

[GetSmith]

FMJ 45ACP is better than the best super duper zombie killing 9mm JHP. The best expansion from a 9mm JHP won't equal that of a 45 FMJ. If you decide on 45 FMJ your best bet would be truncated flat nosed FMJ. The flat nose will open up a bit larger wound cavity while still going through the sternum/spine or pelvis.

I know any ammo is hard to find now but don't manufactures make JHP for short barrel guns?

I have a 4 inch Kimber CDPII and full size Springfield TRP. I go with Federal HST and Golden Saber. Of course I'm now looking for a 3 inch 1911 and am debating between 45acp and 9mm for the reasons you mention. I'm interested to hear what this thread turns up.

 

[G-man*]

I'd just as soon use a TC lead bullet or round nose lead. That way you get penetration and flattening of the bullet making an ugly, deep wound.

Of course, you can carry whatever you like. FMJ has been getting it done for years.

I have seen no evidence that would have me believe a HP in 45 yields any appriciable better results per the extra expense and marketing hype.

I also don't give a damn about " tactical", I care about big holes and penetration. A .45 meets my expectations in both catagories.

 

[65108]

you use what you want ill use what i want. a 45 fmj will leave a larger hole than a 9mm jhp wont it ? so it depends on what caliber your using. and you also take the risk of under penetrating your target as well.

Sure, but we're not talking about FMJ or one caliber vs JHP of another. JHP in .45 will result in more damage to the intended target than FMJ in .45. And that's not a matter of opinion.

 

[TopGunRMNP]

Compared to a 5" barrel an HST can get 1050fps from 3.2" barrel they average just shy of 800fps. A loss of over 200fps from your .45, means that you must know that your JHP will expand at a lower fps, such as the HST... Many tests have been done with 0 expansion, leaving a .45" hole, same as FMJ. Some companies fix this with +P, but +P in a short barrel usually = hard follow up shots. Choose the HST, you will get near 1.00" expansion each time from a short barrel .45 :smile:

 

[G-man*]

These threads always make me laugh, especially when people start throwing out energy and velocity figures and regurgitating factory test data performed on vicious gelatin blocks.

All I can say is its a damn good thing people that killed untold numbers of people using black powder 36 caliber Navy Colts or ol 38-40 and 45 Colts their guns were lacking.

But hey, I needed a good laugh before turning in tonight!

 

[RETSUPT99]

Pistols are terrible fight stoppers to begin with.

I keep JHPs in my Glock 36. The only reason I wouldn't keep JHPs in any of my defensive pistols of any caliber would be if it had issues feeding reliably, but then it wouldn't be one of my defensive pistols.

What he said...exactly!:hand9:

 

[Cuda66]

FMJ 45ACP is better than the best super duper zombie killing 9mm JHP. The best expansion from a 9mm JHP won't equal that of a 45 FMJ. If you decide on 45 FMJ your best bet would be truncated flat nosed FMJ. The flat nose will open up a bit larger wound cavity while still going through the sternum/spine or pelvis.

I know any ammo is hard to find now but don't manufactures make JHP for short barrel guns?

I have a 4 inch Kimber CDPII and full size Springfield TRP. I go with Federal HST and Golden Saber. Of course I'm now looking for a 3 inch 1911 and am debating between 45acp and 9mm for the reasons you mention. I'm interested to hear what this thread turns up.

Sorry, that is simply not true.

RN profile bullets will cut a permanent wound channel approx. 65% of bullet diameter; an expanded JHP will go closer to 80%. Tissue will stretch around the RN profile, where the more jagged edges of a JHP will tear.

You can see this for rouself using paper targets--the actual hole you put in the target is smaller than .45, with a dark ring around it--that's where the paper stretched around the bullet--do it with a HP bullet, and you'll have a cleaner hole. And tissue stretches a lot more than paper.

I'm with Glockman, to an extent--if I were to carry a non-expanding bullet, I'd prefer a lead flat nose/SWC. I've got some 255gr "cookie cutters"--LSWC--bullets that I have for a 2.5" barreled S&W 325. I suspect they would do just fine, if needed.

however, in my autos--I carry JHP, in the 230gr variety; Gold Dot, HST, Ranger-T, whatever I've recently bought and the pistol likes. Penetration and expansion...I like the idea.