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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I had a general question about how other's view specific verbage signage. Do you give the same respect to the, say, handwritten signs vs. the code specific signs? I have read plenty about Texas' 30.06 sign and alot of people seem to think that if it doesn't say SPECIFICALLY what the code says including font size and verbage, they disreguard the sign alltogether. I understand the rights/ wishes of the property owner, but if one was to walk past a "no guns" sign, would that be unlawful and grounds for arrest? How do you view the verbage in specifics?

Arkansas code says:

5-73-306. Prohibited places.
(b)(1) In addition to the places enumerated in this section, the carrying of a concealed handgun may be disallowed in any place in the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of such place by the placing of a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten feet (10') that the "carrying of a handgun is prohibited."


So does it have to say that last 6 words exactly as you read it here?
 

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I would edit the title of your post to say "Arkansas signage", unless you want to sift through 50 different answers, as each state is different.
For instance; signs don't mean squat in Florida, regardless of the verbage.
Good luck. :smile:
 

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I would advise you to contact an attorney in your state for an answer rather than go on what is on the net .. i suspect there is no caselaw at this point and its a grey area personaly .
 

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Discussion Starter #4
re

sarhog said:
I would edit the title of your post to say "Arkansas signage", unless you want to sift through 50 different answers, as each state is different.
For instance; signs don't mean squat in Florida, regardless of the verbage.
Good luck. :smile:

Well, I guess I should, but I am somewhat curious as to how other states view this topic.

I can't seem to find out how much weight a sign holds in Arkansas and I guess with your responce about Florida, it seems some states have thought about the issue. If i can ask, how did you find out about Florida's view? (perhaps that would point me in a direction for search)

thanks for the reply.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
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Redneck Repairs said:
I would advise you to contact an attorney in your state for an answer rather than go on what is on the net .. i suspect there is no caselaw at this point and its a grey area personaly .

I agree with the, not to believe everything on the net, I currently don't carry where there is a sign posted (luckily I have no need to go in those few places here).

Your correct, it is a grey area, especially here in Arkansas.
 

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In CO the no gun signs hold no legal weight. I never pay attention to them if they catch me all they can do is ask me to leave. If I was to refuse to leave then I could be charged with trespassing. I would say you could also be charged with trespassing if you were caught and verbally told not come on the property again armed and you did it again.
 

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Yes I respect all no guns signs whether or not they meet any definition set forth by law. I take my money and spend it somewhere else. I'm not giving any of my money to anti-rights businesses.

The two states I'm familiar with shake out like this on signs:

In Virginia if discovered carrying in a posted location they have to ask and allow you to leave. Should you refuse you will be charged with misdemeanor trespassing.

In Missouri it is basically the same, except that they have an escalating charge if it occurs multiple times within a certain time period. The second go around they will suspend your permit. The way the law is written you basically can't get the third offense, because you would be carrying illegally based on the suspension of your permit for your second offense.

-Scott-
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hey, why the name change fellas? I was curious about other states views of this as well. I just didn't want to limit the responce to people from Arkansas only.

Not a problem, just curious.

Thanks!
 

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Drew
Scott covered our signs in Missouri. I will add that regardless of the legality of the signs, I will not carry in a business that has any type of sign stating my weapon is not welcome. Having been a business owner I will respect the rights of those not wanting us to carry. Whoever I will also spend my money with those that welcome us and not with those that don't.
Mike
 

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Dru - just thought it was more specific to your locale. No sweat - will revert to old title.
 

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IANAL

I think you summed it up for Tx. pretty well. If it's not 30.06 it aint squat, and I ignore it. (except for 51% rule). It's not unlawful for me to do so, as the owner of the business can't make laws. They can ask me to leave if they become aware I'm carrying and I would certainly comply. But if I'm carrying correctly they should never become aware that I am.

Like many others I wouldn't patronize an establishment that didn't allow me to carry, but I think that many of the signs you see are to placate the angry liberals and not really meant to drive off legal concealed carry. At least thats my feeling here in Tx.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
cool

P95Carry said:
Dru - just thought it was more specific to your locale. No sweat - will revert to old title.

cool, Mr. P95Carry, what power you have! :smilez:

Your the man!

Thanks again.
 

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dru22 said:
If i can ask, how did you find out about Florida's view? (perhaps that would point me in a direction for search)

thanks for the reply.
F.S. 790.06(12) states in part:
(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
-any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
-any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
-any detention facility, prison, or jail;
-any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
-any polling place;
-any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
-any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
-any school administration building;
-any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
-any elementary or secondary school facility;
-any career center;
-any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
-inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
That is the list of prohibited places in Florida. If it's not listed there, you can carry. You won't find a list of places that allow carry.
There may be case law on it, but I am not aware of any.

You have already found the Arkansas code 5-73-306 that lists prohibited places, so you're ahead of most folks. I would interpret it to mean that the sign must have the exact verbage, thus the quotes around the words.
My interpretation means nothing, however. The important folks doing the interpreting will be the District Attorney and the jury...if it ever progressed to that point.

Good luck. :smile:
 

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Alabama law makes no mention of the right of any business or individual to restrict the carrying of a gun. That said, the rights of a private individual to control what and who comes on to his property is established many ways. So if an individual says no guns it would pull weight. If a business in Alabama put up a sign it would be a waste of ink and paper. I personally would not carry a gun into a business that posted such a sign. Neither would I carry my wallet nor myself in. I vote on that just like I do on some other issues with my wallet. My position is: No guns, No funds. At least from my bank account.
 

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Texas laws are specific as previously mentioned. Oklahoma signs, however, have no restrictions that I am aware of, and can even be in crayon on Big Chief tablet (no inference meant, folks)
 

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dru22 has asked a question that gets asked occasionally about "signs". While many states do have specific requirements pertaining to signs, Arkansas does not. As long as the "intent" is meant, the sign is legally binding.

My take on it as an AR. Instructor and and LEO is this...so Im going to highlight the questions in bold and respond.


I understand the rights/ wishes of the property owner, but if one was to walk past a "no guns" sign, would that be unlawful and grounds for arrest? How do you view the verbage in specifics?

Arkansas code says:

5-73-306. Prohibited places.
(b)(1) In addition to the places enumerated in this section, the carrying of a concealed handgun may be disallowed in any place in the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of such place by the placing of a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten feet (10') that the "carrying of a handgun is prohibited."


So does it have to say that last 6 words exactly as you read it here?

You'll notice that this code does not specifically address the size of the writing or the quality of the sign. It just says that a written sign must be clear enough to read from 10 feet. This also includes the signs that have no writing but have the common picture of a handgun with a red slash through it.

As long as the owner meets the intent of the law, and the sign can be read by a person of average sight at a distance of 10 feet, it is legally binding.

Be aware of the fact that if you are in shop or household carrying a concealed weapon and the owner has posted a sign prohibiting such, that you are in violation and can be arrested. Act 419 of 1995 (which you should have received a copy of in your class) specifically states that ANY weapons related arrest can be grounds for revocation of your permit.

In reality, if discovered carry in a place that dosent want you carrying,most of the time they'll just ask you to leave and the "law" dosent get involved. If you persist and refuse to leave and they do call the Police, you stand an exellent chance of getting arrested for not only a weapons related infraction, but also for tresspassing as any shop owner can toss you out for any reason he/she deems necessary.

Many states require specific standards on their signs, but Arkansas only requires that it be readable from 10 feet. The words on it or the pictures only have to meet the intent. The opinions presented on this forum may or may not be correct, but remember that those opinoins are irrevelant to the state of Arkansas.

Simply put...DONT DO IT.

There are plenty of other places that could use your money. If a friend of yours posts a note or even asks you not to carry in his house, you should respect them enough to comply.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
HotGuns, Thank you for taking the time to help clarify this matter. I guess the questions (for me) came along with the quotations, (to me) implying that may be the law-binding verbage.
I know some people read it differently than others, but like you said, the "intent" has been shown clearly. Then there is quesiton of how technical one may get with specifics. I have seen plenty of "No loaded Firearms Beyond this point" signs, say at a pawn shop or something similar. Does that mean technically, if I take the mag (and the one in the pipe) out of the gun and put those in another pocket and still carry, I would be abiding by the wishes of the property owner? Don't get me wrong, I am NOT looking for a way around any law or anything like that, just wanted to throw these concerns and questions out to see what others think and have experienced.

Thank you to all those who replied.
 

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I have seen plenty of "No loaded Firearms Beyond this point" signs, say at a pawn shop or something similar. Does that mean technically, if I take the mag (and the one in the pipe) out of the gun and put those in another pocket and still carry, I would be abiding by the wishes of the property owner?
Generally, when you see a sign like that it is strictly for safety purposes such as a pawn shop, gunshop or even at the guns shows...with the exception that gunshows dont want ANY live ammunition on your person.

As long as the gun is not loaded you are good to go. Normally, in a place that deals with guns, its a good safety practice to lock back the slide on your gun, open the cylinder or open the bolt...whatever applies to show that your weapon is "safe" as it removes all doubt.
 

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Signs mean nothing here except for me to walk in tell them why im not spending money there and leave..
Prime example was home depot they posted a not handguns sign even if you had CCW i went in and complained they said to bad..

Drove the 1/2 mile down to lowes and asked them there policy they said it was cool to pack.. Told manager what HD had told me and went shopping when i left they were putting up signs

CCW permit holds welcome ...lol

took less than a month and Home depot changed there tune
 
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