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Anyone use Winchester 185gr Silvertips in their 45 auto?.
I shot some PMC 185gr HP at the range and shot them and other than the muzzle flash they shot pretty good.
Mas Ayoob recommends silvertips for self defense in crowded areas because they almost always expand and only penetrate 8-10 in which sounds about right to me
I picked up a couple of boxes yesterday but haven't had time to shoot them yet but if they are as accurate as the PMC (without the muzzle blast) I just might start using them as a carry load.


PS always had very good luck with the 115gr Silvetip in my Glock
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I like SilverTips and it was my carry ammo for 18 years and it worked and was accurate. Since I started using a 9mm most of my ammo was bought in bulk for training so I have a good supply of HST and EFMJ Federals. If I was going to have to buy any then I would buy the SilverTips. I find them just about any where.
 

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I always keep a couple boxes of SilverTips around.

They have very little recoil and have fed well in every
.45 I have owned. :smile:
 

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I have silver tips for my Peacemaker

But I've been debating about carrying ball ammo in my semi just because the cost and I'm not sure if I would have to fire into a windshield they would penitrate
 

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I have some of the 45 ACP but haven't tried it out yet. Dakotaranger's comment got me thinking about my experience with ball ammo and Silvertips. My wife and I both carry, me a 45 and she carries a 38 Special. Thankfully, we've not had to fire them in a self-defense situation, but living way out in the sticks, our carry guns are often critter-shooters.
I used FMJ for several years - found it zipped right through varmints, often doing almost nothing as far as shock effect, though the bullets generally continued on, punching through small trees, etc. Definite penetration, no doubt it would run through a windshield. Stunning on big animals like horses and cattle if you hit them in the head (duh...).
Meanwhile, my wife used 125 grain +P Silvertips and one shot per critter. The bullets would open right up and come all the way through, making a great big hole.
She's just now gone to the 110 grain Silvertips (non +P) since she's using 642 Smiths and she shoots quite a bit. We thought that a steady diet of P+ probably wouldn't be the best for those airweight revolvers.
I've gone from FMJ to Remington 230 grain hollow points and sure may end up with the Silvertips.
If so, I'll dig up an old car somewhere and see if they'll break glass.
 

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Ive heard that the wwb that wally world sells is the same as silver tips minus the silver coating. Ive tried the 115 gr in 9mm in my xdsc and they do pretty good. And can get a box of 50 for about $12 at wally world and other shops. I might just use these as they have a pretty good track record. Price nowadays means alot with everything going up. Just my .02 cents have a good one everybody.

Sixgun
 

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The only gun I have that wont digest silvertips is my p32. They run great in everything else. Pretty much on the average for accuracy. I even came across a box of .44 special silvertips. Snagged them up in a hurry. Those are pretty sweet.
 

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Silvertips are good but I find the muzzle flash to be over the top, I switch to the golden sabers which have very little MF. The WWB personal defense ammo is basically the silvertip at half the price. At 21feet I don't think the difference between the WWB and STs would be that different.
 

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I shot them in my HK 45 for long time
I found the soft jacketed silvertips were easily deformed in cycling/chambering, the new hard jacket silvertips were great
wally worlds here don't have them anymore, just the white box copper JHP, and they work great too
 

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having studied police shootings for many years i wont use nor would i recommend silvertips. they just dont penetrate. it seems like every good shooting gone bad that i ever read about involves winchester silver tips. trooper mark coates (click reality/in car video and then pan to the bottom of the links) shot his BG 6 times with a .357 magnum. the silvertips didnt penetrate, and the bad guy killed coates. ive also read of .45 acp silvertips hitting collar bones and expanding without penetrating further, and can dig up other links of failures from silvertips if requested.

the argument will be made that they dont overpenetrate, and i dont doubt that argument at all. i would also discourage anyone from selecting a bullet out of fear of over-penetration. the fbi has determined that over-penetration isnt a realistic concern:

"The fear of over-penetration is a misconception which was created back when law
enforcement was trying to overcome misinformed public resistance to the use of hollow
point ammunition. In the process, we began to believe it ourselves. First, our
lawyers are unaware of any successful legal action resulting from the injury of a
bystander due to a round over-penetrating the subject. We are aware of numerous
instances of Agents/officers being killed because their round did not penetrate enough
(Grogan and Dove, for example). Further, if you examine shooting statistics you will
see that officers hit the subject somewhere around 20-30% of the time. Thus 70-80%
of the shots fired never hit their intended target, and nobody ever worries about them -
only the ones that might “overpenetrate” the bad guy. Third, as our testing shows, even
the most frangible bullets designed specifically for shallow penetration will plug up
when striking wood or wallboard and then penetrate like full metal jacketed ammunition.

We are aware of successful legal actions where an innocent party has been struck by a shot
passing through a wall, but as we have proven, ALL of them will do that.

Another overlooked factor is that frequently the bullet must penetrate some obstacle
before reaching the desired target area, such as glass, clothing, arms, etc. If all of
our shots were at the subject’s unobstructed, frontal chest area then the required
penetration could be less, but such ideal conditions are seldom present."
 

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Ive heard that the wwb that wally world sells is the same as silver tips minus the silver coating.
The silver coating is actually an aluminum jacket.

As it is generally softer than the brass,bronze or copper that is traditionaly used on pistol bullets, it is more prone to expansion at lower velocities than other brands...the main reason for its success.

I've had very good luck with them in everything that I've ever shot them in. They are accurate, feed well and are wickedly efficent.
 

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having studied police shootings for many years i wont use nor would i recommend silvertips. they just dont penetrate. it
That's true in that they dont do worth a dang on vehicles, but thats pretty much the case with ANY hollowpoint.

In Trooper Coates case, shot placement,or rather lack of,depending on how you look at it, was the determining factor in the BG shooting and killing him. The BG was a big dude,with lots of fat on him. There were no lethal hits made on him.

I beleive that just about ANY hollowpoint can and will act like an FMJ when the cavity is clogged up. The fact that we here more about "failures" with Sivertips is because of the many police shootings that have taken place with them. They are still very popular with Police Depts. all over the U.S.

Even so, one could do muc,much worse that to use Sivertips for self defense.
 

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I'm not arguing the penetration or lack thereof of silvertips....
but no matter what caliber or type of ammo used, if you don't hit anything vital/nervous system you probably won't stop anyone anyway
 

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HotGuns said:
That's true in that they dont do worth a dang on vehicles, but thats pretty much the case with ANY hollowpoint.
i dont have any fancy ballistic testing facility and im certainly not on the same level as mr. camp, but i do a bit of ballistics testing on coyote, and having a friend that owns a salvage yard, once in awhile ill shoot into junked cars. i realize that my data is thoroughly incomplete due to my limited samplings so take it for what its worth, but i carry corbon jhp's in every caliber i own specifically due to their very effective penetration and expansion through car doors. hornady xtps are also very effective, but hard to get up here. hydrashoks do pretty good too despite not being available in +P pressures. ill pick up some silvertips and see how they do (in gallon sized milk jugs filled with water and frozen, then placed on the other side of the door).


In Trooper Coates case, shot placement,or rather lack of,depending on how you look at it, was the determining factor
at that range? even still, had the bullets penetrated the bad guy the chance of a bleed-out would have increased.


The BG was a big dude,with lots of fat on him.
while true, i feel that if he had used a bullet other than one designed for shallow penetration, his hits would have had more of an effect. it is my belief (based on years of studying this, please dont limit my statements to the trooper coates shooting alone) that the silvertip expands to early to penetrate effectively.


They are still very popular with Police Depts. all over the U.S.
would you agree that this is due to concerns of over-penetration (that the FBI says is bogus)?


Even so, one could do muc,much worse that to use Sivertips for self defense.
certainly.....its just not something i would choose to defend my life with. i just cannot understand why anyone would purposefully select a bullet designed for less than maximum penetration. i want the biggest, heaviest bullet that i can find that will reach at least 950 fps for reliable expansion. i want to penetrate as deeply as possible so that even if i dont hit any vitals, the BG can lay there and bleed to death. :wink:
 

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Most of you are quoting ancient history

the Silvertip you are writing about is not the same projectile in current production--the old one is has been replaced by newer technology in [I believe] all calibers.

An example, the 44 Special. I carry the caliber and was very interested in the ST. About two years ago, I saw a change in the bullet in this caliber ST. At the next jello shoot, Evan invited me to do some testing. Results can be found in the 'Test Bed' forum at www.stoppingpower.net

Briefly, no expansion from old ST from 2.5 inch barreled S&W 296, but great expansion from new ST from same gun.

When evaluating ammo, we need to always compare an apple to an apple. If we don't, we further misinformation.

Today, I would not feel underarmed with the redesigned Winchester Silvertip in any caliber.
 

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too many variables are involved with these issues of one ammo type vs another

as in the Trooper Coates shooting...
sure he hit the perp 5 times....but where? shoulder, abdomen, arm, leg...they don't say in the clip but more info may be available somewhere, I believe no matter what caliber/type or bullet he used it wouldn't have mattered (short of explosive lol) since he didn't hit center mass, etc

by all means feel free to use whatever brand/type of ammo you want and feel will do the job, but its the same as the 9 vs 40 vs 45 debate......no matter what caliber or type of ammo....you need proper shot placement

I would like to see data from controlled tests on the older/softer jacketed silvertips vs the newer/harder jackets
 
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