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Prospector came for a visit last week and, while here, we drove out to practice our other passion, prospecting. Bet you never would have figured it out that Prospector likes prospecting, huh? Anyway, we were in the Agua Fria River area north of Phoenix on a rought dirt road that leads through the desert and is frequented by a lot of people doing alot of different things. Dirtbikes, ATVs, sandrails and dunebuggies, prospecting, metal detecting, hiking, picnicing, enjoying the river on a hot day. People were also shooting as it is allowed in the area. Almost every activity has some some negative impact on the desert. But the shooters are causing the most visible damage to this particular area and I, for one, am absolutely disgusted at slob shooters. In the several popular areas that people shoot out there, there were targets nailed to trees and cactus, literally mounds of shotgun hulls, brass, broken glass bottles, cans, paper trash blowing all over, shot up propane bottles (lots of them) and freon bottles. In some places the "shooting trash" had been stacked high enough to be near my waist. Scores of Saguaro cactus, many 12-14 feet tall had so many holes in them I wouldn't want to get within range of one deciding to fall. A few years ago one DID fall on a guy that was out with his buddy shooting one repeatedly with a shotgun to try and make it fall. He was successful in bringing it down and also successful in getting himself killed. Good enough for him.

With all of this mess, it doesn't surprise me that more and more areas are being closed to shooting. Unless people start cleaning up after themselves it will soon impact us all. We simply won't be able to shoot in open areas anymore. It doesn't take that long to pick up your brass or hulls, targets, cans and anything else you bring with you. And don't shoot at glass bottles.

While he was here, we also went to the local indoor range I frequently visit. Although they ask you to sweep your brass when you are finished shooting, it looks like alot of the slobs like to shoot indoors, too. When finished, I swept our brass and a couple of the adjacent lanes. There's just not an excuse for all of this. Is it this way everywhere or is it just Arizonans that are turning into idiots? :mad:
 

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It's everywhere to a certain degree.

I'm on the board at the local range, and we get constant complaints that it's too messy. I explain that I clean up 2 of 3 times when I'm up there (leaving me one session to actually shoot without 'work'), and we have a paid dude and it's still not enough.

Of course, these are the same guys who never have asked once where the broom to sweep off the concrete pad is.
 

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Bumper,

I am currently the President of the local rod and gun club (soon to be the immediate past president). We have a skeet range and a rifle range. I was previously the chairman of the rifle range. Here are my brief observations on the subject.

Some people shouldn't own or shoot guns. They are so stupid that they cannot follow rules, safety or otherwise. How freaking stupid do you have to be to shoot at the 100yd targets when there is a guy on a bulldozer working on the berm there? :chairshot

People are lazy and selfish for the most part. They will not clean up after themselves. They will do whatever they want no matter what the rules and regs say. They will do it whenever they want no matter when closing time is.

We also have a pond and archery ranges (3). I can tell you that the pond guys are the best group on the whole with archery guys close behind. Pistol shooters are the worst group on the whole followed closely by non-skeet shotgun shooters.

The problem is 2% of any group are bad news. If you can weed out the 2% it gets better. With shooting, the advent of self defense laws that allow concealed carry has brought in a lot of new pistol shooters. People being cheap and lazy won't get any training. They try to figure it out on their own. In the process they destroy the area. Also they aren't properly trained to clean up and so on, so they don't.

Ok, I'll step down now. It's too early in the morning to get my blood pressure this high.

-Scott-
 

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Yup....here too, unfortunately. Although the outdoor range I frequent doesn't specify that you clean up your brass, it's just a common courtesy to do so. I often come in when I've got the pistol range to myself and find that the whole floor is covered with brass. Stepping on them isn't pleasant at times. There's two big ole push brooms but it seems a lotta folks just don't know how to use them. I figure they're the same bozos that leave shopping carts scattered in parking lots. :frown:
 

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At our indoor range a body may be found on occasion! :smile: I used to shoot at the sheriff range they used imates to hang targets etc. One day a imate is hanging a target and a shooter is blasting away on another lane. Oh did that upset deputy dog. We have a bad problem with the forrest service shutting down shooting areas, mostly women are in charge and things get pretty hot and heavy against shooters because of trash.
 

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It's the same here Bumper, The desert areas where you can shoot look like a trash dump and I am disgusted to see all this "target" crap get left behind. I have always lived by the backpackers credo, pack it in and pack it out. Take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints.

This is one subject that also raises my bloodpressure. From what I have seen of some people their homes don't look any better than the places that they visit.
 

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about the only thing I found slob shooters good for is re-stocking my brass bins. I usually sweep up at our local indoor range before and after I am done. I have so much 9mm &.45 brass from slobs that Starline and Midway probably think I don't love them anymore.
 

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It is these dipsticks that give the rest of us a bad name (and unwanted bad press). I fear, sad to say it is by and large the young guys - slobs are they? Punks I find more apt at times! Tho there are older folks who should know better.

They ooze selfishness and self-gratification - to the detriment of the environment and us. I have this quaint ol' notion - ''leave things as you find them'' - which means clear up brass and removed any shot up ''objects'' ( and I am one who LOVES shooting up useless paraphenalia like gas bottles) - such that in effect, no one would know you had been.

I doubt I would have the patience or temperament generally to run a public range - I would probably explode because of some people's behavior.

The other deal as ever - is the few (relative term) who screw everything up for the many - us - and the bad rep' gets smeared all over.

Grrrr - I too can feel a rise in BP comin' on ........ :mad:
 

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It's everywhere

The latest here is these kids that walk around in my area drinking their drinks out of glass bottles & then smashing the bottles onto the sidewalk to "crash the glass" ~ It sure makes walking my dog lots of fun with broken glass all over the place.

By The Way...I am very much against shooting at living trees & that would probably include cactus. It weakens the tree/cactus leaving it open to blight & specie specific parasites that then move on to kill other healthy members of the same specie.
It's not a very good or smart thing to do.
I am NOT in any way a GreenPeace Tree Hugger...but, we have a responsibility not to damage our living environment for no worthwhile reason.
We should try to learn to leave things basically as we found them or better.
Do not shoot at live trees. One or two bullets will not hurt a large, healthy tree but do not shoot at targets attached to live trees...as backstops.
 

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QKShooter said:
I am NOT in any way a GreenPeace Tree Hugger...but, we have a responsibility not to damage our living environment for no worthwhile reason.
We should try to learn to leave things basically as we found them or better.
Do not shoot at live trees. One or two bullets will not hurt a large, healthy tree but do not shoot at targets attached to live trees...as backstops. [/B]
In Arizona, our cactus fight back.... :wink:

From the Tucson Weekly newspaper: In Arizona, a "cactus cop" investigates saguaro "rustlers" who sell mature saguaros for top notch prices, as much as $35 per foot plus $50 for each arm. Newly planted saguaros must display permits to show they were legally obtained. State law also protects native desert plants against defacement, target shooting and other vandalism. In 1983, one "sportsman" north of Phoenix was killed when a saguaro he had seriously damaged with repeated gunfire fell on him. Further proof that saguaros deserve respect.
 

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"was killed when a saguaro he had seriously damaged with repeated gunfire fell on him. Further proof that saguaros deserve respect"

I guess you could say he was "pricked" on....LOL!
 

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Bumper,I am on the west side, Miller Rd West of Goodyear, off R10 is the same way, there is shot up cars trash, they just now close it down. There are hogs. :mad:
 

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This isn't limited to shooters, one of the primary rules for hikers is to pack out everything that you packed in. Respect for the environment should be a priority, but many people show none.
 
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