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Discussion Starter #1
Have y'all seen the new M&P by Smith and Wesson? It is sharp! Clearly a competitor for the GLOCK line of handguns. It features many characteristics similar to those of Glocks; Does anyone know if they will be able to be sold to public because the M&P stands for Military and Police.
 

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M&p...

Handled one the other day. Had a fat grip. Ergonomically didn't feel right to me. Like the Glock 19/23 better. They had them for sale at the local gunshop, available to the public. Take care.
 

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yep seen one and thats probley where it will stay more than a internal lock a Magazine disconnect turns me right off and i wont have one on a gun i would think of CCW at all
 

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They are available to the public.

They can be had without the lock, and most of them do not have the lock. At some point they will be offered wtihout the mag disconnect.

The backstraps can be changed. It comes with three different backstraps to fit different sized hands.
 

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Sorry missed that part they are out our can buy them and combat is right most do not have the internal lock
But i was told the mag disconnect would be in all of them if they get rid of that i might be interested in one of them

they do feel pretty good in the hand
 

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I spent two hours today at the S&W range running 100 rds. of Winchester Whitebox through it methodically shooting & recording hits in groups of five both left and right handed (I shoot & train both) from 25 to 50 and then 75 ft. (right hand only).

The M&P 40 is a buy and as according to the facility mgr. they're retailing at $499 civilian price.
In reagred to the grip it comes with three different backstrap modules thin to fat which can quickly be swapped out by the user for a customized fit. The one I shot today was as is right off the rental shelf, dirty and relatively dry. Oh, and I have no issue with the magazine lock as that is a useful operator safety feature in the event of a retention issue arises.
I'd shot 50 rds. through a brand new one last week on a lark and found it to be very accurate, more so than my 1911s which I've been shooting for years and do very well with. So much so that I thought this can't be right and planned todays shoot just to see if it was a fluke or not.
It's not a fluke and the facility manager mentioned upon debrief and reviewing my targets that many folks like myself who come through and train often are reporting the exact same results as I found.

I'll post pics of my targets and notes later tonight.
I've never met a Glock that I could shoot well and I've not been much of a fan for polymer guns in the past but this is a notable excpetion. So much so that I'm now having a very difficult time talking myseself out of getting on their list to secure one (it's not yet MA compliant).

- Janq
 

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I really like the feel of the M&P....it should take off pretty well. I don't think it will get the LE marketshare that the Glock has, but I'm sure agencies will take to the gun as it will in the private citizen market.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I would like a 1911 or variant, but my father has discouraged it for its inacurracy at distances. Have any of yall had any experience with a Bursa? I thought about it as a back-up when i turn 21 and get my CCW which in Tennessee the permit fee is $115, I saw someone earlier talking about their state raising the price 6 dollars.
 

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The bersa has been talked about a lot like the kahr do a search you'll probley get more info than you can read in a couple hours

out permit cost is on par with the 115
 

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GT Distributors had their annual LEO show this week and I got to play with one. I like it; the back strap change out thing is what I like the most. The gun has a mag safety, as it will not fire without a mag in the weapon. Not good for my type of work. Also it seems to have more internal parts than a Glock. Got to see a video of the internal working of the gun. You can change the gun from right hand gun to left hand gun in about two minutes. Good news for the left hand shooters. Over all I liked the gun and would like to run a few test on it before I could give it my 100%. The only S&W auto that I have is a model 39. Yes I know it is old, but so am I, but this gun is 100%. I am an S&W wheel gunman. Disable the mag safety and this gun will make a good carry gun.

frankmako
 

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Here are the pics from todays session with the new Smith & Wesson 'Military & Police' .40 caliber pistol with notations written on the targets per grouping.
Keep in mind the distances are indicated at the top as well as the hand I was shooting with either right or left.
All of todays shooting was done without a bench rest, standing, and shooting with two hands with slow fire in groups of five unless otherwise noted for a total of totalling 100 rds. Do know that no grouping of five lasted longer than roughly ten seconds so although I was not shooting IDPA style fast I was not shooting Bullseye style slow either.

The pics and targest as depicted are in the order as shot firing from a distance starting at 25 feet to 50 feet (Bullseye competition distance) then lastly 75 feet (long shot).

Group shot of all targets together


First target | 25 ft. | Right/Strong hand | Cold start w/full mag. @ 10 shots continuous | M&P .40 caliber


Second Target | 25 ft. | Right & Left hand | Shooting clockwise from top right per bullseye | 10 shots in two 5 rd. strings with a no rest reload


Third Target | 50 ft. | Right hand only | 15 shots in three 5rd. strings with a no rest reload


Fourth Target | 50 ft. | Left hand only | 15 shots in three 5rd. strings with a no rest reload


Fifth Target | 75 ft. | Right hand only | 13 shots across three groups


Sixth Target | 75 ft. | Right hand only | 5 shots



Seventh Target | 25 ft. | Left & Right hand | Shooting clockwise from top right per bullseye | Colt 'Defender' 4" short barrel 1911 .45 ACP (my CCW today)


I used my Colt as a comparator toward recoil and relative accuracy which I expected to be worst than with the M&P due to it's much shorter sight radius.
Recoil with it is in fact harsh as compared to the lion tamer M&P which makes the .40 caliber feel like a 9mm house cat. I can only imagine what a 9mm must feel like within this machine (!).
The design and recoil buffering system of the M&P works very well and this gun would be IMHO perfect if it were also available in a compact/commander sizing and chambered in .45 ACP.

Overall I give the S&W 'M&P40' four of five thumbs up.
It ain't perfect but damn if it's not good enough.
The S&W Sports Center facility manager where I'm a member told me they are taking orders on these direct at $499 and are expected to be MA compliant upon the MA 'Firearms Review Board' releasing it's updated listing which is rumored to be next month.
After today, I want one for sure.

Smith & Wesson Website said:


SKU: item_209000
Model: M&P
Caliber: .40S&W
Capacity: 15+1 Rounds
Barrel Length: 4.25"
Front Sight: Steel Ramp Dovetail Mount - Tritium Sights Optional
Rear Sight: Steel Novak® Lo-Mount Carry - Tritium Sights Optional
Trigger Pull: 6.5 lbs.
Trigger Travel: Rest to Fire .300 in.
Trigger Reset: Approx. .140 in.
Frame: Large
Finish: Slide and Barrel Black Melonite®, 68HRc
Overall Length: 7.5"
Material: Zytel Polymer Frame, Stainless Steel Barrel/Slide and Structural Components
Weight Empty (No Mag): 24.25 oz.
Overall Height: 5.5"
Width: 1.2"
Sight Length: 6.4"

Reinforced polymer chassis, superior ergonomics, ambidextrous controls, proven safety features. The new standard in reliability when your job is to serve and protect and your life is on the line.

Available in .40S&W, 9mm and 357Sig.

In the design of the M&P, we considered the needs of military and law enforcement from every conceivable angle. No other polymer pistol offers this combination of versatility, durability and safety. ALL BACKED BY OUR SMITH & WESSON LIFETIME SERVICE POLICY.

.40 S&W M&P Pistols
209000: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Std Sights, 2 Mags
109000: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Std Sights, 2 Mags
209200: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Std Sights, 2 Mags
109200: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Std Sights, 2 Mags
209400: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Night Sights, 2 Mags
109400: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Night Sights, 2 Mags
209600: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Night Sights, 2 Mags
109600: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Night Sights, 2 Mags

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=27806&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15711
Edit: As due to issues with Geocities I moved the pics to another location.

- Janq
 

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the m&p promises glock reliability/function with a 1911 grip angle (the only thing my glocks - 3 of them now - really need to be "perfect"). once s&w gets over their self promotion (only offering it in their vanity round, .40 s&w) and offers it in .357 auto and 9mm i expect the weapon will increase in popularity even more. if it proves itself in the field ill definately own one in .357 auto (my carry caliber of choice).
 

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I would like a 1911 or variant, but my father has discouraged it for its inacurracy at distances.
With all due respect to your father, there is no basis in fact for this assertion.
 

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Captain Crunch said:
With all due respect to your father, there is no basis in fact for this assertion.
Agreed.
If anything I've in my own experiences found the opposite to be true.

- Janq
 

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I'm not a fan of the looks of the M&P. I handled one a few weeks ago and it felt good in the hand....but a big piece similar to the size of a Beretta 92. May not be the best carry option but I'm sur quality is there being a S&W.
 

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WJP9 said:
I'm not a fan of the looks of the M&P.
ive never factored that in on my carry weapon. i want a tool that is going to function every time, thats comfortable in my hand that i can use with confidence. any weapon that will do this is absolutely beautiful.
 

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My LEO buddy is doing a test on the M&P. We've been burning ammo through it at local USPSA and steel matches. I believe it's over 9,000 rounds without cleaning.
The last time I shot it, we had seven mags and were in line. Shooter would burn a mag and hand it off to the next. The best I could do was six spent shells in the air at once. Some of the faster guys could get nine in the air. The mirage at the end of 2,000 rounds (that afternoon) was so thick I could barely see the target.
It's a good basic pistol.
Dave
 

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hey the sigma is reliable but imo its junk i know i own one will never repeat never buy another plastic gun my kimber is 1000 times better gun a little more wight i can deal with a 14 lb tigger pull i cant
 

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M&p

I'm probably going to pick one up when they are MA legal (espically with the low price) - however I heard only a .40 will be coming to MA - no .357 :( and of course, an MA compliant model means an awful 10lb trigger.

Anyways, I was wondering if these things had single or double stack mags?

Thanks!
 
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