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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just need to vent:

I have friend who lives in TX.
He used to be a Ca liberal, but is now into self defense, and got his CHL a few months ago, along with Glock19

so far so good, but I have had a few IM conversations with him lately that make me


Argument 1 was over carrying; I told him I carry everywhere its not expressly illegal, he says he does not carry to clients he works at because of the leagal hassels that might ensue if he gets caught or has to defend himself... and yes I explained its better to be alive and sued than dead

Argument 2 was over caliber: he bought a Sig2009 (becuase Jason Bourne uses one in the Mat daemon flick...) but then he stars ssaying he wants 22 because his sig is too big, so I tell him 380 is the minimum for CCW and what about the khar K9 etc etc, his response is that 22 can kill you just as dead...



I asked him to register over here, but he said he did not want to start a flame war...

So I though I might start this thread, then post it too him with all your reasoned, non flame like responses :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
oh, and he also sometimes carries with an empty mag inthe gun, but a loaded one in his pocket...
 

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Well, he'll probably go through life without needing the thing, so he'll be just fine.

You're right, though: he's nuts. I've worked on over 100 handgun killings, and I'd definitely recommend something .38 spl or larger, that you can fire repeatedly into an attacker quickly. And one should keep one's gun as ready as is conveniently and safely possible, since one never knows, does one?

What are you going to do, though? I wouldn't send the results to him - let him do what he wants. He's not harming you. At some point, you just have to let a friend do what he wants or end the friendship. This doesn't seem worth getting into an argument with a friend over, at least not to me.
 

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Send him to a range where he can do a tueller drill. :biggrin:
See how fast he can replace that emoty mag with a full one, chamber a round, aim and fire. LMAO!
Sorry, but your thread title was spot on. some people, indeed.....

Oh! Oh! Ask him why cops don't carry .22s!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You have a point, but like I said to him (in so many words) I would feel bad if he got knifed to death while he had a 22 in his hand, and I had not done my best to convince him otherwise...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah we talked about the Tueller drill too... I don't think he belives it. When I see him next I will do the drill with an airsoft...
 

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Bud White said:
Theres not a lot you can do about it some people just dont want to listen
I'll add to that

There's a lot I don't want to do about it because some people just don't want to listen.
 

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Erich said it loud and clear-end of story!!!
 

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I was thinking about the post on carrying without a round chambered and you say he carries with an empty mag?may as well carry it dissasembled in a fanny pack.thats about how usefull it will be the first time he has a bad experience(and its a possibility) then he will be carrying it cocked and locked.take him to a scary part of town,drop him off and pick him up an hour later.I bet when you check him it is out of the fanny pack, assembled, and hammer back on a loaded chamber. :tongue: had to!
 

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Folks mostly know, my commitment to carry is total - and I do sometimes find it hard to hear of folks like this guy - who not only have caliber-decision-making problems (downsizing!) but also who include an empty gun on the menu too!!!

I really feel there has to be a hard look at the ''why'' of carry - if that can be answered satisfactorily then IMO the rest falls into place - pure, unmitigated logic. If things do not become clear and logical then this sorta guy is ''playing'' at CCW, and might just as well carry a sign - ''I have a gun - but it ain't loaded''!

Sure, he will statistically probably die a natural never having been attacked but can he or anyone else give him that in writing? No - not possible.

It is down to commitment - I use the word again - you do - or you don't - and if you do then do it properly.

Heck - I'm sounding dogmatic again! :smile:
 

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TwoRavens

YOU SAID:
"I would feel bad if he got knifed to death while he had a 22 in his hand, and I had not done my best to convince him otherwise."

That very true BUT, ask yourself how you would feel if you FINALLY talked him into carrying with a fully loaded mag in his pistol and one in the chamber...and then he NDed & accidentally shot himself or somebody else or even you. You would feel just as bad.
Concening his particular form of logic...I can only say that you cannot inject Common Sense into a persons head.
They either have common sense in there already or they don't.
 

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Well, you might point this out.

I learned to fight from bikers. I lift weights. I have been known to lose my rarely used temper over the poor execution of oragami, restaurant drafts and the 'blue period' of Georges Braque cubism.

I have also been known to carry a .380 ACP.

Even though I can probably throw a punch, a party and a hissy fit better than your tree-hugging friend, you might point out to him that my peers consider me poorly protected with this mouse gun.

Aggressors care not a whit for his opinons, they want his wallet.
 

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I gotta agree with the pros here....this ain't no fad. There has to be (and is) a solid reason to carry. Can't say what percentage of bozos are out there, but it is a plain fact they are there. In all my years, I've yet to be found in a situation that needed deadly force, but would rather be prepared should that unfortunate day come. Prepared doesn't mean carrying a weapon (mousegun) separate from the ammo either. Nor does it mean not practicing/training with it. Learn how to use the tool properly and learn when to use it, plain and simple. I wouldn't waste any further time convincing your friend...if he gets it, he gets....if not, so be it. :redface:
 

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perhaps a good pistol course would help him alot. Pros teaching ya how to properly use your gun sure make it nice. (and he should gain alot of confidence). Also don't watch movies and make your life on what they teach ya. I have yet to see any movie without some flaws in gun use or operation.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
rocky said:
perhaps a good pistol course would help him alot.
I was just thinking the same thing! He lives in Kingwood, Texas, can anybody recommend a good teacher near there?

I think he might respond to some good coaching, maybe force on force later on... he once told me, while we were talking about tueller drills etc that he could draw in about a second! I asked him how he timed himself and he replied he counted 1001 in his head :eek: So a class might introduce a little reality.
 

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It is funny that you all mention the Tueller Drill. I just returned from the Lethal Force Institute and completed LFI-1 where we completed the Tueller drill. The results were amazing. The most amazing was Bill, one of our instructors who had the following stats.

Age: 70
Weight: 188
Height: 5'11"
Footwear: sneakers
Ground Surface: Sandy Pavement
Existing Injuries: 2 artifcial hips, 2 artificial knees, hyperextended ach.
Tueller Time (7 yds) 2.4 secs

Show your friend that. Bill had leg surgery just 3 months prior to this class. This is what has made Tueller so important in self defense cases where a lawyer states "Well he just had a knife, and you.....SHOT HIM?"
 

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Re: " 22 can kill you just as dead..."

You might explain that in a self defense situation, you aren't shooting to kill the person, you're shooting to STOP the person, RIGHT NOW. It doesn't matter if he dies of internal hemmoraging 2 days from now if he beats you to death in the next 5 minutes.
 

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Well, you could always tell him that the .22 is a great idea.......as long as he buys a Sig 210, and a couple of P7's, maybe even a complete P7K3 set since he's fond of .380 also, and bequeathes them to you..... :biggrin:

Hopefully, he'll have an epiphany; or just never "need it". :chairshot
 

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I think what we're really talking about is reliability.

I have a Ruger 22/45 that has gone +4,500 rounds without a stoppage. And I shoot it better than any other gun I have.

I wouldn't feel that naked facing a felon with my 22/45. But it would have to my automatic pistol.

My pistol is accurate and reliable.
 
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