Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
Sara and her Million Toadies are probably, right now, trying to get thier hooks into him to be their new anti-CCW poster boy.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Probably a classic mindset problem tho heck - who is to say someone else might not have got it all wrong too.

Seems his major blunder was the verbal challenge - I assume given other than from cover and, his gun was not in hand to be useful. Had he still been hesitant but with good cover then perhaps he could still have avoided all the hits and fired back - assuming even then he had a clear field of fire.

It is so easy to try and judge these things remotely - but it doesn't sound like his CCW did him a whole lotta good!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,011 Posts
A chance is all some ask...

P95Carry said:
It is so easy to try and judge these things remotely - but it doesn't sound like his CCW did him a whole lotta good!!
I think my argument would be: At least he had a chance! No gun....no chance. That just about precisely echoes the thoughts of the Founding Fathers. I think, IIRC, that it was Jefferson who said:
The best that can said of the people is that they be properly armed... Or something like that! LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
I must disagree.

ExSoldier762 said:
I think my argument would be: At least he had a chance! No gun....no chance.
He wasn't one of the ones being shot at; he went to the sound of the gun shots, which he might not have done had he not been armed. Instead, he might have gone the other way and gotten away.

But once he was there,
He walked to the front of the store to see what was going on, and took a defensive posture, crouched to one side in the store’s entrance. He had his gun out, but tucked it back into his belt, under his clothes, after thinking better of it...

“We had eye-to-eye contact the whole time,” McKown said. He is unsure if Maldonado saw his weapon.

McKown, standing, said to Maldonado, “I think you need to put that gun down, young man.”

McKown’s hand was back near his gun. Maldonado swung his barrel over and opened fired from the hip.
he seems to have thought that the presence of his handgun, tucked in his belt under his shirt, was going to strike fear into the heart of the shooter and turn him into a quivering mass of jelly, begging for forgiveness.

As for Maldonado, McKown said he hopes whatever prompted his actions will be addressed so that he can become a productive member of society, and that he would be willing to help.
Perhaps this is the source of the problem. Seems that, although he had a gun, he really wasn't armed.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,706 Posts
In the immortal words of that great sage Tuco (Eli Wallach from "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly) "When it's time to shoot; shoot; don't talk". I have thought about just such a thing and young/old; black/white/brown; male/female and I think (who knows till it happens) I would take the shot given a clear/safe background, hopefully after the first shots the sheeple will be smart enough to find cover and not be in the line of fire. While riding with the sheriff’s dept I have been in a couple situations, and once the adrenalin hits the system it is hard to think as clearly as you do sitting at the computer, I hope I would remember to check the background and get a good sight picture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
481 Posts
Hard to judge the actions of someone else without having access to all the facts.

If the newspaper article was right, I'd say that the time for a verbal challenge and putting his gun back into his waistband ended when he saw what the shooter was armed with.

Going along with the 'escalating level of force' theory, answering the threat level of a semi automatic rifle with a verbal response was not too bright.

The victim also stated that he did not want to shoot the kid in the head. Once he made that decision, he was useless and would have been better off himself if he had just kept quiet.

He'll have a lot of time to think about his mistakes. If he remains paralyzed, I'll bet the thought 'what if' will go back and forth in his mind for a long time to come.

As one who has had to take life in both war and policework, I can honestly and frankly say from experience that in a shooting situation, your mind had better be totally focused on survival. Wanting to go home to your family at night is a pretty strong motivation. With survival foremost on your mind, your training kicks in and you'd better react automatically.... there usually is no time for anything else.

The victim in this mall story was not totally committed to what he might have to do with a concealed weapon so he became a liability to the situation and to himself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
P95Carry said:
Had he still been hesitant but with good cover then perhaps he could still have avoided all the hits and fired back - assuming even then he had a clear field of fire.
If I'm ever one of the people in the background and he is shooting at us (the rest of the people that you see in the background in addition to me) please, I beg of you, TAKE THE DAMNED SHOT! We're already being shot at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
He obviously didn't say the pilots prayer:
Oh, G-d, please don't let me f--- up!
It looks like denial response: This really isn't happening, I am just an observer, everything will be alright.
The heart of the matter: "McKown just wasn’t ready..."

I wish him a speedy recovery and I hope he gets some good training, or gives up his permit.
Rob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
Heck guys,I'll say it.(But I'll be sweet) If he had training--what kind of training?? He made several very foolish mistakes. It's obvious that he didn't have the correct mindset.He wasn't really sure of himself. That is exactly why this forum is so important to all of us out in the REAL world.I really hope that he is not a example of what a large percent of us CCW'ers would/will do. I have,and will, make mistakes--BUT-- when it comes time to shoot I'LL SHOOT. Don't know 'bout the rest of you guys and gals out there but this is a hard cold fact. I know myself very well.----------
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,533 Posts
What a story. Interesting insite into his thought process, and what he did.

I've said it in other threads, you just NEVER know how you are going to react to a situation...... And that can even vary from day to day. I just hope that if I ever ended up in that situation, I'd take the shot!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,206 Posts
Blame the lawyers I say. He may have not really had what it takes to shoot someone, I don't know. Won't know if I do either until that time comes, and hopefully it never will.

So, "He had his gun out, but tucked it back into his belt, under his clothes, after thinking better of it". What made him "think better of it"? I believe it was the fear we all have of what the lawyers are going to do to us if we get involved. If this had taken place in Florida, with their new stand your ground law, He may have felt confident enough to do what had to be done. As it is in most states we are all scrared of legal repercussions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,468 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
havegunjoe said:
Blame the lawyers I say.

I believe it was the fear we all have of what the lawyers are going to do to us if we get involved.

As it is in most states we are all scrared of legal repercussions.
That was pretty much my take on his reactions (wrong though I may well be). Also the primary reason my initial reaction would be to get the family out and let the "deer in the headlights" fend for themselves. The days of taking care of bad business, and having the town-fathers give you a never-empty mug of suds, are long gone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
He may have done alot of things wrong, but what he did do (I am not aware how many rounds the kid had on him) was draw fire on himself instead of the kid shooting at women and children. Not the best in a survival sense, but yet very noble. (I'm sure it was not his intention, but it's better than hiding in a bathroom stall.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
I hope I have the b8888 to do better should my turn ever come. But at least he did something (the wrong thing as it turns out) other than tuck and run while others were murdered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
I hope I have the b**** to do better should my turn ever come. But at least he did something (the wrong thing as it turns out) other than tuck and run while others were murdered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
950 Posts
I hear so many people willing to jump up and help a total stranger. It got this guy hurt. What he should have done as soon as he heard the fire was seek cover inside for himself and call PD. This is what can happend when we jump to the rescue in this manner. I hope he regains use of his leg. :hand4:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
I don't think it was a fear of lawyers.
As for Maldonado, McKown said he hopes whatever prompted his actions will be addressed so that he can become a productive member of society, and that he would be willing to help.
McKown, standing, said to Maldonado, “I think you need to put that gun down, young man.”
I don't know what kind of training was necessary for his CCW, but this indicates that he had some kind of idealized view of violence and self defense. In fact, my reaction from these statements is that he may not have know enough to be afraid of lawyers.

As far as drawing fire away from others, I think that would fall under unintended consequences. The shooter went on to take several people hostage and could have easily killed them.

McKown, 38, said he carried a gun and even trained for situations where he could keep innocent people from getting hurt.
Cop wannabe?
After going through the hassle of getting a CCW, when he had the opportunity to act he didn't and will now end up being a statistic against CCW.

By the way, why did he think he had to shoot the guy in the head? I didn't see anything that indicated that he thought the guy was wearing body armor.

One more thought:
McKown, standing, said to Maldonado, “I think you need to put that gun down, young man.”
When we practice, do we practice challenging someone? As in,
DONT MOVE! DROP THE WEAPON!

I know that if I just try to shout it out, my throat closes up and I squeek. I have to make sure that I do it from the diaphram ( or someplace like that - I can't "just do it")
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
313 Posts
My answer to the specific question is, "Yes. Some should carry, and some should not." It is up to the individual to make the determination for himself; anything more restrictive will end up biting all gun owners in the arse someday.

One example of a person who should not carry a defensive firearm is my ex-wife. I tried and tried to get her into the mindset one should have if he or she is to go armed. She could not do it, she lacked the judgment to know when to go to the firearm, and she lacked the desire to go find out or train.

A good friend of mine also does not carry because his temper is too bad. He has never had any legal problems because of it, but in college and for a decade or so after, he could tend to get a little, well, martial about things. Instead, he has learned and taken to heart the issue of proper defensive mindset as much as any of us, with the only exception being that he does not carry a firearm. A guy like that, well, I'd say he's a mature and reasonable fellow.

Best,
Jon
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,004 Posts
wonder how much training he did have. Part of constant training is reacting instictively , rather than sorting out what to do if the time comes.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top